Evolution of Eurobeat:: Part 2

[para_rigby]

What's is your opinion about the progress of the eurobeat sound over the past few years? Do you like the experimental/new sounds or do you wish for a return to the good ol' days?

I was reading a 2005 thread because I'm bored and there were some people exclaiming how the 140s/150s were the shit. Do you still have a certain period of SEBs that you consider golden?

[zoupzuop2]

There's one trend I despise.

SOFT SYNTH RIFFS.

You know, the ones that GGM and Sinclairestyle use? The ones you could practically drink? Compared to the ripping, searing synth brass sounds that ABeatC and Hi-NRG Attack pioneered in their booms, I just can't stand them. Yet they continue to be a "new school" trend.
I do like the blending of styles that's become more common though. I enjoy a lot of the disco-flavored tunes, Capaldi's Eurodance/Eurobeat meshes, anything with a nice other-genre flavor.

[Lebon14]

There's one trend I despise.

SOFT SYNTH RIFFS.

YOU SIR WIN THE INTERNETZ (ie. I agree with you)

Beside that, the 160's was awful. The 170's was better and 180's were A - W - E - S - O - M - E.

Another style I really hate is Annalise's style. Also, since Eldorado, Dave Rodgers never ever created a song I like. I want Disco dave to be back

But, I need more Secret Destination, Speed Of Light, Para Para Night 2008 and Ride On My Speedy Car Well, the 180's was awesome for that! And, the 190's are really going for that!

[Cosmic_Bard]

I'm bored and there were some people exclaiming how the 140s/150s were the shit. Do you still have a certain period of SEBs that you consider golden?

I'm not sure I've heard anyone say they loved the 150's. XD

[Brisk]

I consider the 120s as the golden decade. So many good songs during those albums: Sexy Hi Sexy Eyes, In The Line Of Fire, Love and Luxury, Supersonic Lover, Fragile, etc. I miss the A Beat C of this time.

[drnrg]

zoupzuop2

There's one trend I despise.

SOFT SYNTH RIFFS.

You know, the ones that GGM and Sinclairestyle use? The ones you could practically drink? Compared to the ripping, searing synth brass sounds that ABeatC and Hi-NRG Attack pioneered in their booms, I just can't stand them. Yet they continue to be a "new school" trend.

Exactly I hate those synths even more than you. It's almost like if they are trying to match the high pitch vocals with those synths. Anyway, Dave seems to have brought back his old keyboard. at least on some songs.

As long as Eurogrroves, HRG, Saifam and DELTA continue using harder aggressive sythns and keep pushing the volume higher to emphasize the boom ,I'm all for the new style. faster, Aggressive, frantic and groovy


I couldn't pick out a favourite decade cuz all of them contain some of my favourite songs, but I will say that in this last couple of years Mr. Dall Ora created some of my favourite songs of all TIME

Toby Vale-Heartbreaker 2008
Dave- Pride
Mike J.- Touch & Go
Chris Stanton- A Perfect Hero
Eurogroove- Euro Night
M.C. Thunder- Iron Man

[#Infinity]

I'm not sure I've heard anyone say they loved the 150's. XD

The 150's are actually my 3rd favorite Super Eurobeat decade, only behind the 80's and 100's! That was definitely the new-school era that focused the most on strong, variable, and well-produced eurobeat at its best. Aside from 151 and 156, I found every single album to be completely phenomenal, with numerous standouts from all of the labels, including my all-time favorite eurobeat song, Go Go Money. TIME especially impressed me during the 150's, as they had definitely completely recovered from the dull slump they experienced in the 110's and 120's by the 140's decade, and presented themselves to their very best in the 150's. I have high hopes that the 190's decade will live up to the 150's in term of quality and memorability, and judging by the first 2 releases, it's definitely off to a great start!

[Jay]

NB: This is a long post as I found the subject matter of a 'golden decade' particularly interesting, but this post isn't all that much longer than my SEB reviews. The "tl;dr" version is at the bottom.

A 'golden decade' is very subjective. One's idea of a golden era in eurobeat may not necessarily reflect the views of another. Does a golden era emerge when all the labels perform flawlessly in everybody's eyes with no clear misses? Is it a time of innovation and fresh ideas, irrespective of label performance? Is it a combination of the two?

A 'golden decade', conjoined by every labels, is almost impossible to achieve. For this to transpire, ALL labels are expected to gratify the listenership with every performance they create. Heck, it's already difficult to achieve widespread approval on one album, let alone one song. The producers aren't omnipotent music gurus who can appease every single individual listening to the genre. Take "Night Of Fire" for instance. Clearly, it is the most renowned eurobeat song which many people enjoy, but is this really 'perfect eurobeat' as some would call it? Judging by people's opinions from this forum alone, even "Night Of Fire" fails to satisfy a global listenership.

If we take the impractical idea of flawless performances by every label out of the equation and concentrate on each label's innovativeness, a golden decade is slightly more realistic to achieve, yet still very difficult. Nevertheless, it's worth examining. Each label reinvents itself at a different period in time, and this can be called a label's 'golden decade'. The 140s and 150s concentrated on the eminence of SEB's new labels (Vibration, Hi-NRG Attack and SCP). They were the cornerstones of the 140s and 150s for an obvious reason: to curb the triumvariate monopoly created by Time, A-Beat C and Delta on the SEB series lasting for so many years. A-Beat C were still performing well with the likes of "Original Sin", "Go Go Money", "Big Boy" and "Let's Go Dee Jay", but I doubt many people would call this Time or Delta's best decade. It was clear they were worn out; the lack of representation from this decade on any of the non-stop compilations from Time and Delta proves this. Nonetheless, the 140s and 150s were the decades of innovation as a result of the influx of new labels - a high level of quality was maintained by a majority of labels and producers.

The 160s were highly controversial. SCP and Hi-NRG Attack were well settled into the series and everybody knew what to expect from them by this point, both in good and bad ways. Vibration left the series and were replaced by Saifam, which was a welcomed move by most. What really let this decade down, however, were the internal conflicts at Delta and the staleness of Time. You could easily extract the frustration felt by both labels from many of their 160s productions, such as "This Love" (Leslie Parrish), "Remind Me To Forget" (Madison), "Blue" (Alexis) and "All Alone" (Nayr). SCP and A-Beat C, once again, kept the level high, but there were emerging signs that their eminence wouldn't last for too much longer.

The 170s and 180s go hand-in-hand, as they were similar in terms of label performance and innovation. Avex reintroduced the double CD format, which was welcomed although the remix discs left much to be desired. As feared, SCP and A-Beat C started to crash and burn during 2006-07. Surely, not everybody will agree with me about SCP, but I felt they were running out of ideas by the mid-170s. We began to see many more bubbly and speedy productions such as "Cover Girl", "Go Bananas", "Yo Yo Baby" and "I'm OK". It was a state of aberration for SCP, who likely wanted to try out new ideas and test the reaction of the listenership. The introduction of SCP's lyricist, Frederico 'Jay' Lehr, as a vocalist for SCP directly after their influx of Kiki & Fancy-esque productions showed that SCP were aware they needed somebody with a fresh and unique voice to spice up the label. Up until today, SCP have proved themselves well with few bumps along the way, yet the 170s were definitely not their best decade.

Everybody knows about the infamous conflict A-Beat C faced. The emergence of Go Go's Music in 175 left Pasquini in a state of disarray, and to this day, A-Beat C are still struggling with their identity as a label. The overexposure of Annerley Gordon and Tomas Marin damaged A-Beat C's image, along with the repetitious and boring sounds Pasquini and Raimondi used in most of Gordon's productions, which trickled over into the territories of other vocalists, particularly Nuage and Kelly T. We've debated about this over and over on the forums, so I will leave the rest of the details out, but clearly it was neither SCP's or A-Beat C's golden decade.

Throughout the 170s and 180s, Hi-NRG Attack and SinclaireStyle experienced a number of problems similar to A-Beat C's. I've argued against Hi-NRG Attack in much depth previously, so I'll only skim through the details. HRG haven't really changed all that much since their induction to the SEB series in 141. Their sounds have always been the same. Some would see this as a positive, but I believe the majority feel they've never possessed any creativity; they've never really experienced the joys of a 'golden decade' like the other labels. If none of the labels took any risks, then eurobeat would be drab, boring and tiring to listen to. Originality and innovation is what will keep the SEB series going. Labels need to challenge themselves and expand their boundaries. Hi-NRG Attack and SinclaireStyle are the primary examples of labels who fail to step outside of their comfort zone, and if the SEB series lasts for another five years, I really do not want to envisage what will become of them. HRG NEEDS to reinvent their formula and ditch the pitch, whereas SinclaireStyle needs to lose the airy synths and stop worrying over recreating the number of hits they made pre-100s. At the moment, I'm worrying more about Hi-NRG Attack.

There were some positive aspects of the 170s and 180s, which I decided to leave until last. The problems Time and Delta faced prior to the 170s were, safe to say, almost non-existent here. "ParaPara Girl" by Barbie on 172 proved for the first time in a long while that Time possesses that capability to venture outside of their realm, but these sorts of productions were a scarcity at best. The biggest obstacle Time dealt with were a series of rehashes during the early 180s. "Love For Money 2008" and "Wild Night" on 184 were most indicative of this, and also the most amusing since they appeared on the same disc. The Time sound was more impactful and less dreary than their 160s productions. Time's expansive repertoire of vocalists also helped them reach a pinnacle higher than they've ever been able to achieve in recent years. Delta was able to regain momentum with thanks to Newfield, Moroni and the range of producers they have; the 170s and 180s were definitely their 'golden decades'.

Go Go's Music is an interesting case study, but I feel the hype surrounding them is not much different to that of Vibration, HRG and SCP back in the 140s. Many are still enthralled by this new sub-label, but I suspect the honeymoon between GGM and the wider listenership will begin to deteriorate in the late 190s, and the full effect will definitely be seen by 210. GGM was extremely impactful early on and made a definitive mark on the SEB series, but there was always evidence of a long-term decline. Personally, I feel this is already emerging in light of the repetitiveness of their two productions on 192, but it appears nobody agrees with me on this. I suspect their decline will be more noticeable by those not completely sold by the label in one year's time, even though it's still early days.

tl;dr: Each label experienced a short burst of creative energy at different points in eurobeat history. New labels are particularly effective in creating a golden era during a period where other labels seem to be struggling with the thought of new sounds and ideas - HRG, SCP and Vibration proved this in 141 and GGM emerged at the most convenient time in 175 amidst SCP's, HRG's and especially A-Beat C's struggles. Whether a total 'golden decade' can be created with the assistance of every label is yet to be seen, and it may be fair to conclude that it will never happen. Each decade has its ups and downs from each label due to a wide array of factors. Irrespective of all this, innovation and originality is needed to preserve eurobeat. Some labels handle this better than others, and the future looks particularly grim for those lacking this essential creative energy.

[para_rigby]

I think that was one of the best replies here on the thread that I've seen in a long time, Jay. Good job.

Here are the label golden eras as I have seen them on the SEB series (bias of course and I haven't heard much of the SEBs in the Pre-Delta era):

A-BEAT C: 90s-130s, 160s
DELTA: 60s-90s, 180s
GGM: too early to tell
SCP: 170s-180s
TIME: 170-180s
HI-NRG ATTACK: can't see much of an era except for the EBF & EM series...

[Cosmic_Bard]

I'm not sure I've heard anyone say they loved the 150's. XD

The 150's are actually my 3rd favorite Super Eurobeat decade, only behind the 80's and 100's! That was definitely the new-school era that focused the most on strong, variable, and well-produced eurobeat at its best. Aside from 151 and 156, I found every single album to be completely phenomenal, with numerous standouts from all of the labels, including my all-time favorite eurobeat song, Go Go Money. TIME especially impressed me during the 150's, as they had definitely completely recovered from the dull slump they experienced in the 110's and 120's by the 140's decade, and presented themselves to their very best in the 150's. I have high hopes that the 190's decade will live up to the 150's in term of quality and memorability, and judging by the first 2 releases, it's definitely off to a great start!

Then you won't mind naming some of the more memorable tracks from the 150s?

For reference, the only tracks from the 150s I enjoyed were:

Fire to the Eurobeat - Tam Arrow - 151
Dark in the Night 2004 - Maio & Co. - 152
Original Sin - Powerful T. - 154
Euroheat - Cherry - 155
Shine Forever - Lilibeth - 156
Shock - Jackson O' - 156
Your Love is Magic - Luna - 156 (favourite track of the 150s)
Supertonic Lady - Mega NRG Man - 157
No Reason to Cry - Mr. M - 157
Let's Go Dee Jay - Nuage - 157
Stop and Go - Jeff Driller - 158
My Body Sweat - Vicky Vale - 159

For me, that seems like pretty slim pickings.

[zoupzuop2]

Throughout the 170s and 180s, Hi-NRG Attack and SinclaireStyle experienced a number of problems similar to A-Beat C's. I've argued against Hi-NRG Attack in much depth previously, so I'll only skim through the details. HRG haven't really changed all that much since their induction to the SEB series in 141. Their sounds have always been the same. Some would see this as a positive, but I believe the majority feel they've never possessed any creativity; they've never really experienced the joys of a 'golden decade' like the other labels. If none of the labels took any risks, then eurobeat would be drab, boring and tiring to listen to. Originality and innovation is what will keep the SEB series going. Labels need to challenge themselves and expand their boundaries. Hi-NRG Attack and SinclaireStyle are the primary examples of labels who fail to step outside of their comfort zone, and if the SEB series lasts for another five years, I really do not want to envisage what will become of them. HRG NEEDS to reinvent their formula and ditch the pitch, whereas SinclaireStyle needs to lose the airy synths and stop worrying over recreating the number of hits they made pre-100s. At the moment, I'm worrying more about Hi-NRG Attack.

The voice pitching is not their choice. That is a specific Avex demand; failure to comply means they don't get that song on Super Eurobeat, or they do and they're penalized for their disobedience. Thats how it is with the rest of the labels, for the most part— Sinclairestyle's current sound worlds are by request, Delta's songs have almost always been in minor keys, ABeatC overexposes Annerlise, GGM's (and SinclaireStyle's) synths are about as "solid" as fog, SCP sounds trance-y, etc. and so forth. I imagine if the labels were freer than they are now we'd hear a vast improvement in quality... unfortunately it's hard to breathe deep the air of imagination when you're clamped in an iron fist. (Perhaps this is one of the biggest reasons fans have had such outrage against the compilation to date? It's hard to disagree on creative nuances with the ones making the biggest Eurobeat Compilation still running.)

And, I disagree entirely that HRG has not changed "at all". There were quite a few productions that showed a more mature side of Rimonti, Festari and Girbaudo's writing in the 170's and 180's, even if not all of them were great. Can we agree that Rick Castle was a good case in point?

Further, I disagree that they did not have a "golden period". That'd only be true if you meant specifically on Super Eurobeat; on other compilations like Eurobeat Flash or Euromach, they were easily the highlight. Can we agree that the period in which their "big hits"— Bandolero Comanchero, Bazooka Pistolero, Caballero With Sombrero, Ganguro, Super Euro Flash, Ayh Ayh Ah, and more— was certainly worth placing above their current status? One could also do well to recall their very early period in which NONE of their vocalists (or very few) were pitched and it was far more like Italo Disco.

True, their productions are usually silly, but isn't that sort of their staple— to make us forget about how in-depth we get about our "serious" eurobeat and laugh a little? If anything, I think it takes a LOT of creativity to write on such "non-love" subjects as Russia, Cows, Weaponry, and whatnot... and still be enjoyable. And yet they do it, at least for me.

Now, if they made something that sounded like an old 140's-ish ABeatC production (which Tam Arrow came very close to a few times), I'd be very impressed; I do see what you mean in terms of soundworlds in a few cases (though something MUST be said about a label that brings in live brass instead of synth brass in Eurobeat and still remain successful for it)... but they use enough different and fresh sounds to keep me interested. If they had exactly ONE synth riff sound like current SinclaireStyle and GGM, then I'd be complaining. But they have their happy songs, their more sentimental songs... they have sufficient balance in a formula that works consistently enough to keep them interesting to me and many of us Hi-NRG Attack fans.

[#Infinity]

Then you won't mind naming some of the more
memorable tracks from the 150s?

Oh sure, I can name a LOT:

Big Boy / Manuel (151)
Money / Dave Simon (151)
Love Me Forever / Mary Lane (151)
Valentino Samurai / Maxx Ducati (151)
Dark In The Night 2004 / Maio & Co. (152)
Man On Fire / Marcus (152)
Make Or Break / Fastway (152)
Are We Gonna Be Together / Dave & Meri (152)
Livin' In The Night / Pamsy (152)
Goodbye My Love / Delta Queens (152)
Jane / Ricky M. (152)
BACK TO YOU / CODY (152)
Lollipop Banana / Betty Blue (152)
I Want To Believe / Marko Polo (152)
Supernatural / Rose (152)
Burning Lover / Leila (152)
Fly To The Star / Rick Castle (152)
Body To Body / Mega NRG Man (152)
Hold On To Love / Stylophones (152)
Emotions / Stephy Martini (153)
It's My Life / Dusty (153)
Million Dollars / Maxx Ducati (153)
Pistol Man / Garcon (153)
Disco Music / Dave Simon (153)
Boogie Boogie / King & Queen (153)
Touch & Go / Mike J. (153)
CONTROL ALT DELETE AND BLOW / JEFF DRILLER (153)
Lionheart / Lisa Lion (153)
DANCIN' BABY / IRENE (153)
Black Night Cadillac / Joe D. Toaster (153)
BEAUTIFUL / LUCYA (153)
YOU'LL NEVER STOP ME LOVIN' YOU / NUAGE (153)
Feel The Power / Nick Mansell (153)
Wings Into The Sky / Christine (153)
All The Best / Manuel (154)
Going Crazy / Queen 26 (154)
ORIGINAL SIN / POWERFUL T. (154)
Space Fighter / Captain America (154)
Blue / Delta Queens (154)
I Wanna Be Fat / Go Go Girls (154)
ONE NIGHT WITH BAZOOKA BELLY DANCERS / FRANZ TORNADO & BABY BAZOOKA (154)
She's The One / Karen (154)
Toyboy / Nando (154)
Wanna Be With You / Za-Za (154)
Lonely Boy / Symbol (154)
Still Love / Nuage (154)
My Valentine / Ace (154)
Na Na Na (The Best Time For Love) / Shelia (154)
Dance To The Music / Kaioh (154)
Don't Say Goodbye / Kevin Johnson (155)
Speed Car / D-Team (155)
Euroheat / Cherry (155)
Light My Fire / Giacomo Caria (155)
Beautiful Day / Dee Dee & Regina (155)
Baby Boy / Go Go Girls (155)
RAMBO DEMOLITION / TAM ARROW (155)
Hot & Crazy Love / Lolita (155)
Sweet Heart / Pretty Woman (155)
Body Guard / Bad Gang (155)
When I Look At You / Leila (155)
Love Is... / Virginelle (155)
Hello / Pamsy (155)
John 'N' Mary Dance / Big Town Guy (155)
777 / Fastway (155)
Wild Reputation 2005 / Dave Rodgers (156)
Shine Forever / Lilibeth (156)
Shock / Jacky 'O (156)
Your Love Is Magic / Luna (156)
Sexy Guy / Jock Lee (156)
2 LOVE 4 LOVE / PAMSY & ACE (156)
Snowgame Fighters / Mickey B. (156)
My Heart Burns Like A Fire / Lolita (157)
SUPERTONIC LADY / MEGA NRG MAN (157)
She's All Right / Cherry (157)
Let's Go Dee Jay / Nuage (157)
Vision Of Paradise / J. Storm (157)
Bugabuga Chew Chew / Boogaboo (157)
Terminator / Overload (157)
Satisfaction / Delta Queens (157)
The Hero / Casanova (157)
WONDERFUL FEELIN' / LISA LION (157)
Midnight Lover / Dusty (157)
Sticky Tricky & Bang! / Sticky Tricky & Bang (157)
Victim / Leslie Parrish (158)
Love Is Freedom / Chris Stanton (158)
Power Of Sound / Ace (158)
Inside Your Heart / Queen 26 (158)
What You Need / Manuel (158)
Superlove Superaction / Mike J. (158)
The Speed Of Light / Nick Key (158)
Butterfly / Dee Dee (158)
Call Me Now / Mickey B. (158)
Stop & Go / Jeff Driller (158)
Superguy / Lou Turner (158)
BAZOOKAAA / GARCON (158)
GIVE ME YOUR LOVE / GIADA (158)
Kingo King'O Beat / Fastway (158)
I Feel Fine / Nuage (158)
Pilot Is The Hero / Niko (158)
Fine / Melissa White (159)
Motto-Motto Inamoto (Caballero Remix) / Franz Tornado & Bazooka Girl (159)
Never Say Goodbye / Stylophones (159)
My Body Sweat / Vicky Vale (159)
Special Love / Madison (159)
Beat On / J.A.F. (159)
Love Is Power / Ricky M. (159)
Changes / Betty Blue (159)
Solid Rock / Cody (159)
I Believe In Lovin' You / Brian Ice (159)
Dancing Days / Priscilla (159)
Nothing Can Stop The Music / Go Go Girls (159)
GO GO MONEY / NEO (159)
Funky Funlover / Go 2 (159)


Is that enough for you guys?

[valiant]

This thread suddenly turned into:

What is your favorite track in SEB 150?!

[Cosmic_Bard]

Okay, I will admit I forgot about 'Back to You - Cody'. That song is pretty amazing.

As for the rest...

Go Go Money is so bland to me, I've heard it quite a bit and I'm fairly sick of it. Infact, most of Neo's stuff is pretty average stuff to me these days.

Wonderful Feeling was a big hit, but I think I only gave it a seven when I reviewed it, I tried not to get swept up in what I felt was hype over this one.

You've also bolded a few other titles I wouldn't have expected anyone to hold in such high regard.



Now, if we look at your list in a certain way, you really only chose fourteen titles to my twelve.

Like you, of course I really appreciated and enjoyed nearly every single track in the 150s (and every eurobeat era for that matter) but I wasn't about to post an excessively long list only excluding the ones that made my ears bleed. Like I've said when I review an album, a eurobeat track that scores something like a one or a two on my scale is head and shoulders above a track from any other sort of genre or production.

I mean, I could be here all day long meticulously debating point-for-point on every song that piqued my interest, but I'm not quite that obsessed...

...well, I might be, but I wouldn't want anyone to think so. XD

[the_ditz]

The 150's is the decade that I officially started following the Super Eurobeat series officially (156 was my first full release) and for that reason alone, the tracks hold a certain sense of nostalgia to me.

For some reason - probably due to the inclusion of SCP and Hi-NRG Attack - the 140's were actually the major turning point and the kick up the proverbial behind that the series had been crying out for. The sounds were completely different from the bog-standard Delta/Time/A-Beat C tracks that had been sounding more and more stale throughout the 120's and 130's, and the overall production values just seemed to take a step upwards for me.

The explosive power of Lisa Lion's "Big On Emotion" was a big highlight of the 140's for me, as was the excellent "Rock Me Tonight" by Electric Rock Band. In the 150's, my favourite track - and still riding high in my all-time top 5 - was the often overlooked "2love, 4love" by Pamsy & Ace (I still maintain that this is one of the best duets ever recorded for the SEB series). However, let's not forget the awesome 153 release either, with the classic "Emotions" by Stephy Martini and two of the best Hi-NRG Attack male productions ever - "Control Alt Delete & Blow" by Jeff Driller and "Black Night Cadillac" by Joe D. Toaster.

The 160's made a winning formula even better by adding the awesome Saifam/Asia release to the mix. Tracks like "Yellow Butterfly", "Like A Fire" and "Black UFO" were destined for a place in my Eurobeat hall of fame from the word go with their irresistably catchy melodies and big synths and beats. Of course, SCP kept up their high quality, and it was during this decade that my love for Pamsy truly blossomed with the ground-breaking and emotional "So Fragile" - my favourite Eurobeat track of all time.

In terms of the 170's, apart from the introduction of GGM at 175 and the best Time track in years "Bad Bad Bad", there is little that I get overly excited or nostalgic about. It was a solid decade, but there was nothing ground-breaking that defined the period as a whole for me. The 180's heralded the rebirth of Delta, especially with their explosive performances on 184 (Super Rider is another classic in my eyes).

It's funny that A-Beat C haven't really played a major role for me in the series at all. Sure, they have had very strong periods (probably the best one was linked to Neo around the start of the 160's), but most of the time they have just been "there", like a necessary but not really essential addition to the series that had far more innovative and interesting producers and artists to showcase.

As for the future, I only have high hopes - the 190's have started off with a bang, mostly thanks to GGM's punchy and energy-fuelled productions and the rebirth of Dall'ora with Eurogrooves is looking fairly promising on first impressions. My wish is that Dima can be fully re-established on the series, as he was always a producer with a unique rich sound to his productions. I also hope that SCP finds the spark they had at the start of the 140's and 160's again and that Delta can churn out some more instant classics like Super Rider.

I don't ask for much y'know...