Mixing and recording mistakes in released tracks

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flying_corridor
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Mixing and recording mistakes in released tracks

Post by flying_corridor » 28 Sep 2020, 22:17

Has anyone ever noticed any mixing or recording mistakes in any tracks? I noticed a potential one the other day in Tsunami Comes / Mad Max, at 2:32 there's what seems an unintended voice in the right channel, it kind of sounds like someone saying "excellent" although probably not. But it sounds like the same vocal sample as throughout the whole track, I presume either they mixed the track accidentally with the wrong sample, or it's some random piece of noise they intended. What's interesting though is that it's in both the standard and extended versions on 148 and 174.

Is it a mistake? I'm not sure, but I'm curious if anyone has spotted other potential production mistakes in mastered released tracks.


youtu.be/h1xKDqu9WmA

Bonkers
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Re: Mixing and recording mistakes in released tracks

Post by Bonkers » 29 Sep 2020, 01:05

I think one of the biggest errors against Eurobeat music is the poor audio mastering, especially 90s eurobeat. Tracks can have lack of bass, lack of a prominent drum, lack of crisp sound clarity, vocals aren't loud enough and sound sunken into the back of the track. One track can sound crystal clear from one label, and the next track sound cloudy & boxed-in from the same label. And it's like...did producers just have outdated equipment while eurodance and other EDM genres had more up to date equipment? But then, like I said, you get those tracks that are well mastered, so it's like, why this track, but not all tracks?

One example of a track with lack of a strong drum is Hurry up Hurry up; it's just a soft pitter patter


youtu.be/ZOy52VoRiXk


An example of cloudy track is Bazookistan (at least on all the CDs I have it on)


youtu.be/3lyd8rr7rI8

And Kiss Again

youtu.be/3AJDv-a5ReA


An example of the vocals being in the background


youtu.be/LazjVZy6yhY

And Tiger Mask...Why this track was even submitted without being re-recorded is beyond me. If they knew the vocals were so poorly embedded over the instrumental, why send it in?


youtu.be/Jr70k6Q4pUY


All of these are GREAT tracks, but the mastering just makes it harder to enjoy.

flying_corridor
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Re: Mixing and recording mistakes in released tracks

Post by flying_corridor » 29 Sep 2020, 14:02

Yeah I know what you mean, the mastering is so inconsistent across a single CD let alone across large ranges of the SEB series or genre in general. I have noticed sometimes when editing in audacity that some CDs are at peak volume with waveform clipping (preserved at least), where as other CDs have been trimmed and aren't even at peak. Sometimes it's just a matter of amplifying the track and that helps, but as to why they were mastered and pressed in that way is a mystery.

Yeah, I noticed your first example when I listened to Hurry Up Hurry Up, actually I found the whole of 191 to sound kind of crushed. A good example I've found is to compare Burning Like Fire / Dave Rodgers to Don't Belong / Mari San from 195. Don't Belong has been mixed in such good quality that the high frequencies, which to my ears sound pretty much perfect, make the rest of the CD sound utterly dull in comparison, with Burning Like Fire being probably one of the worst sounding tracks on the same CD.

Dull and mushy, 195.


youtu.be/W5lrRUwJRz0

Loud and crisp, 195.


youtu.be/mzok82HN1d4

Arguably some people might say that Don't Belong has too much on the highs and not enough on the bass, personally I prefer clearer highs over fatter bass but that's just my ears. Either way the quality of one track completely outshines most of the CD. It might sometimes just be a matter that depending on how they've been mixed that some frequencies get crushed in the final mastering process, but I don't know exactly how that works to know for certain.

Lol, and yeah Tiger Mask sounds pretty awful. 🀨

flying_corridor
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Re: Mixing and recording mistakes in released tracks

Post by flying_corridor » 11 Dec 2020, 23:22

Bonkers wrote: ↑29 Sep 2020, 01:05 I think one of the biggest errors against Eurobeat music is the poor audio mastering, especially 90s eurobeat. Tracks can have lack of bass, lack of a prominent drum, lack of crisp sound clarity, vocals aren't loud enough and sound sunken into the back of the track. One track can sound crystal clear from one label, and the next track sound cloudy & boxed-in from the same label. And it's like...did producers just have outdated equipment while eurodance and other EDM genres had more up to date equipment? But then, like I said, you get those tracks that are well mastered, so it's like, why this track, but not all tracks?
Yeah, I just listened to Nack 5 for the first time and the mastering is horrible, shame because it's a good track, but as like you said the vocals are behind everything else and it's full of noise. Probably the worst sounding track I've listened to on my own.

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Re: Mixing and recording mistakes in released tracks

Post by Bonkers » 13 Dec 2020, 16:40

I'm glad it's not just me who notices this.

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Lebon14
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Re: Mixing and recording mistakes in released tracks

Post by Lebon14 » 17 Dec 2020, 03:58

You guys forget to consider one thing: "mixed like that on purpose".

Also, a compilation is hard to make sound all the same. Lots of different producers, styles and artistic choices involved.

The only *real* recording issue that I remember in recent memory is "In My Arms" by Kate Project. It's right in the intro, you can't miss it.
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Re: Mixing and recording mistakes in released tracks

Post by Bonkers » 18 Dec 2020, 03:35

Lebon14 wrote: ↑17 Dec 2020, 03:58 You guys forget to consider one thing: "mixed like that on purpose".

Also, a compilation is hard to make sound all the same. Lots of different producers, styles and artistic choices involved.

The only *real* recording issue that I remember in recent memory is "In My Arms" by Kate Project. It's right in the intro, you can't miss it.
Any other genre of EDM, on CD releases, sounds crisp and clear compared to SEB.

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Lebon14
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Re: Mixing and recording mistakes in released tracks

Post by Lebon14 » 19 Dec 2020, 02:30

Bonkers wrote: ↑18 Dec 2020, 03:35 Any other genre of EDM, on CD releases, sounds crisp and clear compared to SEB.
lol like that was actual fact. that right here is up to everybody's pesonal taste. some like the old sound better, some like the newer sound better. hell, i'm a stratovarius fan and, on their forum, people were arguing about the same thing about one recent album... one thought it was muddy, the other thought it was clean. yeah. no. personal preference.
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flying_corridor
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Re: Mixing and recording mistakes in released tracks

Post by flying_corridor » 26 Dec 2020, 17:12

I don't necessarily think it's always mixed like that on purpose by design, more a product of the recording and the best they could do. Take Nack 5 for example, Domino's vocals have so much high frequency it's almost piercing and that's after being mixed and mastered. In that case you'd have to match both Domino and Kaioh's vocals in the EQ as well as volume, otherwise Domino would be overpowering Kaioh and making the track unbearable to listen to. The result is what sounds like dulled vocals that are sunken behind the instrumental and a track of completely different quality to something else. Better recordings by the producer would result in something a lot cleaner, say Mari San's vocals in Don't Belong for example, loud, powerful and nicely balanced with everything else. Nack 5, not so much, it just seems like poor planning and oversight during recording.

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Re: Mixing and recording mistakes in released tracks

Post by Bonkers » 03 Jan 2021, 07:34

One thought to ponder on is whether Avex was demanding the songs at such a quick rate, producers didn't have time to give quality mastering to every track.

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Mear
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Re: Mixing and recording mistakes in released tracks

Post by Mear » 03 Jan 2021, 10:24

Bonkers wrote: ↑03 Jan 2021, 07:34 One thought to ponder on is whether Avex was demanding the songs at such a quick rate, producers didn't have time to give quality mastering to every track.
Partly yes. This is quantity instead of quality when you need to constantly write 30-70 tracks per year for Avex to choose. Although there is always a reserve in case of a delay. Usually there is no problem that there are not enough tracks.

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Re: Mixing and recording mistakes in released tracks

Post by Capitaine » 06 Apr 2021, 21:47

I noticed too lack of sound quality on some eurobeat tracks.
But it would be wrong to think eurodance sounds better. Me and my friends, we have complained in the past about some eurodance tracks, either vinyls or cds.

It's a small music market, targetting clubs mainly, not mainstream.
It shows also on sleeves, with mistakes on durations, mistypes on artists and tracks names, and so on.

I'm speaking of the 90s eurodance anyway, I don't know much about the 2000s.

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Re: Mixing and recording mistakes in released tracks

Post by Bonkers » 07 Apr 2021, 22:06

Capitaine wrote: ↑06 Apr 2021, 21:47 I noticed too lack of sound quality on some eurobeat tracks.
But it would be wrong to think eurodance sounds better. Me and my friends, we have complained in the past about some eurodance tracks, either vinyls or cds.

It's a small music market, targetting clubs mainly, not mainstream.
It shows also on sleeves, with mistakes on durations, mistypes on artists and tracks names, and so on.

I'm speaking of the 90s eurodance anyway, I don't know much about the 2000s.
I think Eurodance producers had figured out how to program drums and bass better than some eurobeat producers. Eurodance capitalized on that rolling/galloping bass drum and heavy kickdrum, so it had to be a prominent feature in tracks. This is one reason BoomBoomBeat/Asia/Saifam records tracks sound more powerful since Mark Farina worked in both genres.

As far as Eurodance in the 2000s, you won't find that "eurodance sound" in the 2000s. Once Aqua and other groups like them hit the market with their cheesy sound of eurodance (I refuse to call it "bubblegum"), the other eurodance artists took the trance route to the genre. By the 2000s, that wonderful galloping bass line was gone. If you want to hear the early 2000s sound, look into this series:

https://www.discogs.com/label/1293969-Euromix

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Re: Mixing and recording mistakes in released tracks

Post by Capitaine » 08 Apr 2021, 09:00

Thanks for the tips, I'll check them :wink: but I was more about technical quality than artistic, like jitter, hollow sound, or some others as you said previously.
Thankfully it's not all of them, and it's not always noticable !
Bonkers wrote: ↑29 Sep 2020, 01:05 I think one of the biggest errors against Eurobeat music is the poor audio mastering, especially 90s eurobeat. Tracks can have lack of bass, lack of a prominent drum, lack of crisp sound clarity, vocals aren't loud enough and sound sunken into the back of the track.
I remember a cd I bought in the 90s, and it was fine then. But now, listening to it with a modern setup, I hear a few noises.
Recent hardware performs better, but recordings get older when they're not remastered.

I may play it with an old cd player though :grin:

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Re: Mixing and recording mistakes in released tracks

Post by Bonkers » 08 Apr 2021, 16:17

Capitaine wrote: ↑08 Apr 2021, 09:00 I remember a cd I bought in the 90s, and it was fine then. But now, listening to it with a modern setup, I hear a few noises.
Recent hardware performs better, but recordings get older when they're not remastered.
I notice things like that too, a lot with my 90s Happy Hardcore CDs. Some were mixed from vinyl pressings, so when I listen to them now on new equipment, you can really tell difference in mastered volume.

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