Regarding Anti-ABeatC sentiments

[zoupzuop2]

I'm really freaking tired of it. If I hear much more of it, I'm REALLY tempted to take my Eurobeat forum-business elsewhere. Even after opening up a thread for discussion of the labels (mostly for the ABeatC talk), it's still fairly strong. Now, to be fair, there have been some more relenting and considerate discussions about ABeatC, but these are few and far between when compared to some of the sheer TAUNTS I've seen/heard regarding ABeatC.

These are just a few of my evidences for the Anti-ABeatC sentiments:

And yeah, definitely GGM. A-Beat C wouldn't be able to pull off a song that powerful and memorable even if they tried...

If only AVEX would drop A-Beat C... (or at least reduce their number of tracks to far less than half the album), they'd be hitting the jackpot...

Although, if they (ABeatC) aren't present on 181, I personally wouldn't miss them...

this label is quite synonym of "Bad songs label" to me...

We'll offer Dave and Domino $100,000,000 to stop singing for the rest of their lives.

Wasn't it inevitable that a Eurobeat label would eventually lose steam, even if for a small period of time? Granted, ABeatC has not been generating as many hits as they used to even slightly before Go Go's Music formed, and even Dave Rodgers' pieces have really taken a dive. But what I've heard from the members of this forum regarding ABeatC singers, songwriters, and the label in general is making me sick! ABeatC has been developing Eurobeat music for nearly twenty years, and all of a sudden one of those years is slightly less than par and we thrash them, call for their deletion from the Super Eurobeat compilations...
TWENTY YEARS. Taking that number literally, meaning it's probably not literally accurate, that's 7304 days (leap years accounted for) of creating New, Interesting, Creative material that will sell; retooling it as needed for promotions, radio play, or whatever; or performing it for the greedy ears of its fans, never having their fill of hearing what ABeatC has had to say in their music. It's not like every one of those days was pure Eurobeat gold. To be honest, though, better that those days WEREN'T magic in a can... it proves that they are human, just as much as us.

Has Lebon14 called for the deletion of Delta from Super Eurobeat? Has Bore cried out that Time should stop producing songs? Have I ever stated that SAIFAM should focus on their Italy-only market and forget they were ever IN Eurobeat? Absolutely not. And yet I've heard more trash-talk about ABeatC than I've heard for any disliked label in a long time.

Are we forgetting the legacy that ABeatC's left so far? They may not have INVENTED Eurobeat, but they've most certainly shaped what it is today. Was Dave Rodgers not a household name amongst Eurobeat fans at one point in time? Didn't we all rejoice at one time when Powerful T or Digital Planet put out a smasher? Remember when Nuage joined ABeatC's forces and blew our minds with Sunday? ABeatC may not have been the only force in Eurobeat over twenty years, but they've certainly been important.

If we think that ABeatC is doing so poorly, instead of raining negativity down on Pasquini, Contini and staff/crew, why don't we do something about it? We're part of their fanbase, and they listen to us (and I don't mean that in just a metaphorical way-- producers actually VISIT these forums!!! Newfield can attest. :3 ), so why can't we DO something about what we don't like? Let's write a song together, and have Rodgers produce it. Or we could analyze what we liked/didn't like about the most recent additions to the SEBs. Or we could do... a large number of things, besides say such cruel things about a label that we've all had a crush on at one point or another.

What I'm saying is, if ABeatC is crashing and falling, we shouldn't be pushing it nearer to the ground, we should be keeping it up and flying! If after 15-20 years of producing music they need some help or advice, WE, the fans, the ones that have the say as to whom is "good" and whom is "poor", should be more than happy to build ABeatC up, not tear them down. We didn't like Red Code. WHY didn't we like Red Code? We didn't like California Dreamin' or My Blue Sky. WHY didn't we like those? What WORKED in those songs? Instead of saying "HAY TIHS SONG SUXXORZ, A-BEAT-C IS STOOPID", we should be saying "Red Code and California Dreamin' have lacked the star power that previous Dave Rodgers songs had BECAUSE..." and finish with REASONS.

If all it takes is a small review of the most recent songs, so be it. If it requires the addition of the right vocalist/musician to ABeatC, as low-quality as I may be, if it would help them at all (and/or if they would accept my input and help), I would offer myself willingly and freely as a vocalist, artist, and/or writer/composer for ABeatC. I know what I liked and disliked from ABeatC, and if I can recreate the magic they once had, if for one song alone, it'd be worth any/all work applicable.

...look. I know I don't post much, and I don't always know enough about Eurobeat, but I'm VERY tired of the hating. If this thread requires locking and/or deletion, so be it. If I'm the only one that thinks ABeatC is taking this talk unnecessarily, then someone politely let me know and I'll request that the thread be closed and/or deleted. But just let this be a request to at least reconsider how we talk about ABeatC, or ANY label in particular. They need our help, not our fists.

[Bore]

Very well constructed post. The thing with public forums in general is that anybody can step in at any time and point out any kind of harsh comments about any subject. It can be a user who has been around for years, or recently registered person. It is sadly unavoidable that there are clashes between people and opinions differ so much that it's no wonder that people treat topics differently.

Justifying opinions with proper arguments concerning the topic always help get the message through. And as said, trying to do eurobeat as well as the real people would be a challenge so in a way there's no position to throw the harshest of criticism about the releases. Yet we all do, when we do feel like it. But then again in what world do the music critics actually know everything about the things they are criticising... Anyways, a proper argument for every bit of criticism is always good to have.

As for the topic about hating A-Beat C, I have been a fanboy of the label for many years, and so far I haven't lost all the hope towards them getting better but little by little it does get harder to hope for the best. There have been sparkles of light in their productions and they still have great vocalists in board, but the truth is: Nothing good lasts forever. Gotta treat the change in the label's productions as they come and it doesn't necessarily mean that they'll be forever in a slump if they aren't doing their best right now (same applies to any label for that matter). But pointing out criticism towards the currently released songs as they come is justified. A take on the whole situation is a different thing. As zoup said, there's a real legacy with A-Beat C's productions that still shows in most of the eurobeat productions. And it does deserve notice (but then again so do many other things as well).

At least I haven't been the frontline hater on this topic ;C Even though I might be on a different label case a flagcarrier. Anyways, venting out and pointing out your opinion with as thoroughly thought and written post is always the best imo. Got nothing really to add to it, other than "I agree".

[drnrg]

Good point. I'm glad I'm not the only one who doesn't approve of various anti-Eurobeat statements. I don't mind a little sarcasm and a wake up call from TIME to TIME. That keeps the labels on thier feet, but I'm also against the dreadful thoughts and language sometimes used to express a genre that we all supposably love. There is positive criticism and then there is flat out hate. Lately ABeatC, Daniel and even my beloved Elena Ferretti seem to be getting a lot of negative slack . Someone even had the nerve to say the fans should boycott SEB 181 if it was like 179. Geez, I wouldn't trust that person with my SEB collection if my life depended on it.

Like I said on another thread before, I post similar stuff on Hip Hop and Techno sites. Sending out the messege: I don't care ,your music sux and I hope you stop making it, but I REALLY REALLY hate THAT music. So the haters should ask themselves, "Am I really a fan of Eurobeat as a whole, or do I just like a handful of songs?" IMOP ,anyone who uses hateful criticism is NOT a REAL fan. I think if you wanna get your point accross to a certain label, send an e-mail. Most producers take into concideration our thoughts. After all, we are the fans and the ones who buy the music

[DJ Mike TJG]

I must confess, while A-Beat C's output has taken a back seat lately, they still remain one of my all time favourites - perhaps in no small part to how much playtime they get per album. Alright, they have quite a few turkeys, but there are some real golden numbers in there too! They are no better or worse at consistently high quality output than any other EB label - they're just more visible for the larger share of the albums they get.

I think the main sting at the moment is an almost complete absence of Elena Gobbi from the albums. We've gone from having her in 1-3 songs per album to just 1 every few albums, if we're lucky. She is, without a doubt, one of the finest and most consistent female singers to grace Eurobeat (along with Clara Moroni), and it's a real shame not to hear her so much anymore.

That said, I hope A-Beat C refinds its creative zest. We all have our off periods - and when you're in the business of making music all the time, writer's block can be a real killer! But invariably you can always pick yourself up again, and I think this is just what A-Beat C will do!

[Jay]

I'm really freaking tired of it. If I hear much more of it, I'm REALLY tempted to take my Eurobeat forum-business elsewhere.

First of all, if you really want to leave and attempt to find another English forum that encourages exhaustive levelheaded discussions about eurobeat and its labels, then best of luck to you. I guarantee you that you won't find any though. Music is all about love and hate - not just this genre - and a message board is the perfect location for anybody to discuss them in any form they desire. Besides, a forum staff that restricts contrasting between the light and the shade among its members equates to rather boring, bland colloquy. Is that what you're pushing for?

Although members are rather open about the unwelcoming direction that A-Beat C is headed down, I do not see it as a big issue since most of the time it's a passing comment. As dismal as it may seem, encouraging members to act composed and calm when discussing the labels, their tracks, and why they might not have sufficed is merely an unfathomable hope. Take a look at the bigger picture, you'll see that mindless label or artist bashing transpires scarcely, at least to the degree you have described.

ABeatC has been developing Eurobeat music for nearly twenty years, and all of a sudden one of those years is slightly less than par and we thrash them, call for their deletion from the Super Eurobeat compilations...

Second, you seem to be affected immensely by one or two bad apples. What you quoted means zilch since the entire community does not believe that A-Beat C needs to be hastily removed from the Super Eurobeat series. I certainly don't. Maybe one member who is not afraid to elicit his point of view believes so, and perhaps one or two more who are subtle about it, but is your inclusive 'we' really justified? Try to look past your paranoia for a second and realise that not every single one of us is against A-Beat C. Your thoughts are clouded by a couple of members whom you can easily ignore.

I will admit that others who are feeding the label bashing, even through defense, do not help the matter much, even if backed with good intentions. All this does is prolong the hate; not to mention that it likely fulfills the heretic's intention to spark conflict. Sometimes it's better to just ignore the "DANIEL SUX!" and "ABEATC SUX!" posts instead of gathering 20 members to slander and undermine the critic. That's where problems start; somebody is more likely to become fed up and hurt that way, regardless if you think their comments are 'cruel'.

Or we could analyze what we liked/didn't like about the most recent additions to the SEBs ... besides say such cruel things about a label that we've all had a crush on at one point or another.

I don't know where you have been, but many members already pursue this suggestion if you looked closely. I will emphasize my point that you are agonizing too much over the negative.

What I'm saying is, if ABeatC is crashing and falling, we shouldn't be pushing it nearer to the ground, we should be keeping it up and flying! If after 15-20 years of producing music they need some help or advice, WE, the fans, the ones that have the say as to whom is "good" and whom is "poor", should be more than happy to build ABeatC up, not tear them down. We didn't like Red Code. WHY didn't we like Red Code? We didn't like California Dreamin' or My Blue Sky. WHY didn't we like those? What WORKED in those songs? Instead of saying "HAY TIHS SONG SUXXORZ, A-BEAT-C IS STOOPID", we should be saying "Red Code and California Dreamin' have lacked the star power that previous Dave Rodgers songs had BECAUSE..." and finish with REASONS.

There's one thing you and perhaps 90% of this forum fails to understand: not everybody is capable of criticizing a song or a label in civil means, whether it be through language barriers or simple oblivion towards the makeup of eurobeat. To elucidate my latter point, I had no freaking clue what a "sabi" or "synth" were early in the year. I was unable to pinpoint exactly what elements were good or bad about these tracks, and still to this day I experience difficulty in this regard. I questionably compensated for my lack of prior musical knowledge by rating songs either excellently or proceeding to rant about how a certain track was "GOD AWFUL" without any justifications behind them. I still do sometimes, but I try my best to justify it.

I'm willing to assume that those (and there are quite a few) who cannot rate a song or discuss a label's flaws without ranting on and neglecting to justify their opinions are in a similar boat. They simply are not knowledgeable about eurobeat's framework that they cannot help but infuriate others mistakingly. Honestly, the only way you can stop this is for an administrator to add abhorrently harsh rules that restricts members from ever rating songs or discussing labels. What sort of forum are you going to have then? Fairly humdrum if you ask me.

By the way, I enjoyed Red Code, My Blue Sky and California Dreaming.

[Wataru Akiyama]

About friggin' time someone said something, I was getting sick and tired of all the hate for the label that practically built Eurobeat into what it is today, and deserves as much honour as the venerable TIME records.

TIME owns our souls, Delta is Win, A-Beat-C is awesome, Daniel rocks, Dave Rodgers is a God, everyone STFU and go home now.


Savvy?

[Nine]

I will post something better when I have more time but I just have to ask.

What is Red Code? Isn't it Red Core? O_o if it is Red Core, I liked that song too ;___;

[DJ Mike TJG]

I will post something better when I have more time but I just have to ask.

What is Red Code? Isn't it Red Core? O_o if it is Red Core, I liked that song too ;___;

There's a bit of debate on this one - the song is listed by Avex as Red Core, but Rodgers is clearly singing Red Code during the song, and I think it was even listed somewhere as the latter as well?

[Mikaeru]

I will post something better when I have more time but I just have to ask.

What is Red Code? Isn't it Red Core? O_o if it is Red Core, I liked that song too ;___;

There's a bit of debate on this one - the song is listed by Avex as Red Core, but Rodgers is clearly singing Red Code during the song, and I think it was even listed somewhere as the latter as well?

It is listed as Red Code on ASCAP's site.

[#Infinity]

I'm annoyed particularly because Go Go's Music is an extremely similar label to A-Beat C and has been a lot more popular recently, yet A-Beat C still receives the most tracks per SEB even though they haven't offered much variety with their productions lately, and now I'm getting really tired of Powerful T., Nuage, and Annalise when none of the tracks they're recently put out live up to the spirit of their former classics.

I just want more from a fresh, new label with quality productions right from the start (GGM) and not repetitive content from an old label that was once fantastic and now just tired and bland. For me, it's more that GGM is being underexposed, not just that A-Beat C is being overexposed. And I really don't think I'm the only one who believes this; I know there are some people who prefer A-Beat C, but right now it seems that most people, like me, are just a whole lot more interested by GGM. Maybe they'll recover eventually, but it seems that their golden years have passed, leaving them in decline. As Mr. Rodgers grows older and more exposed to cigarettes, he's just not going to be able to display the energy and originality he once had, and it's already showing with most of A-Beat C's recent productions.

[Sadie]

Zoup, this is an *excellent* topic to create.

I'm all for constructive criticism. If you don't like something, then don't like it - but don't just sit there trashing the label or artist. Instead, make a point. Give the producers a small hand with a suggestion or two. Even if Europe and America are not the main markets, people do read our thoughts, and saying something useful gets others (as well as yourself) thinking. I don't like Hi-NRG Attack's newer songs for the most part because there is little variation - same three artists, same weird themes, same sound, etc. But, 179 showcased some good songs by the label. I just miss their older materials and not-so-busy sound. No hate or outlandish behavior there.

There is positive criticism and then there is flat out hate. Lately ABeatC, Daniel and even my beloved Elena Ferretti seem to be getting a lot of negative slack . Someone even had the nerve to say the fans should boycott SEB 181 if it was like 179. Geez, I wouldn't trust that person with my SEB collection if my life depended on it.

I agree about the 179 and 181 thing, also... I adore 179, and 181 is good stuff (certainly not a waste!). I'm happy I purchased both albums.
And we all already know how I feel about Daniel and Delta's newer stuff. :3~

[zoupzuop2]

First of all, if you really want to leave and attempt to find another English forum that encourages exhaustive levelheaded discussions about eurobeat and its labels, then best of luck to you. I guarantee you that you won't find any though. Music is all about love and hate - not just this genre - and a message board is the perfect location for anybody to discuss them in any form they desire. Besides, a forum staff that restricts contrasting between the light and the shade among its members equates to rather boring, bland colloquy. Is that what you're pushing for?

Although members are rather open about the unwelcoming direction that A-Beat C is headed down, I do not see it as a big issue since most of the time it's a passing comment. As dismal as it may seem, encouraging members to act composed and calm when discussing the labels, their tracks, and why they might not have sufficed is merely an unfathomable hope. Take a look at the bigger picture, you'll see that mindless label or artist bashing transpires scarcely, at least to the degree you have described.

Second, you seem to be affected immensely by one or two bad apples. What you quoted means zilch since the entire community does not believe that A-Beat C needs to be hastily removed from the Super Eurobeat series. I certainly don't. Maybe one member who is not afraid to elicit his point of view believes so, and perhaps one or two more who are subtle about it, but is your inclusive 'we' really justified? Try to look past your paranoia for a second and realise that not every single one of us is against A-Beat C. Your thoughts are clouded by a couple of members whom you can easily ignore.

I will admit that others who are feeding the label bashing, even through defense, do not help the matter much, even if backed with good intentions. All this does is prolong the hate; not to mention that it likely fulfills the heretic's intention to spark conflict. Sometimes it's better to just ignore the "DANIEL SUX!" and "ABEATC SUX!" posts instead of gathering 20 members to slander and undermine the critic. That's where problems start; somebody is more likely to become fed up and hurt that way, regardless if you think their comments are 'cruel'.

I don't know where you have been, but many members already pursue this suggestion if you looked closely. I will emphasize my point that you are agonizing too much over the negative.

There's one thing you and perhaps 90% of this forum fails to understand: not everybody is capable of criticizing a song or a label in civil means, whether it be through language barriers or simple oblivion towards the makeup of eurobeat. To elucidate my latter point, I had no freaking clue what a "sabi" or "synth" were early in the year. I was unable to pinpoint exactly what elements were good or bad about these tracks, and still to this day I experience difficulty in this regard. I questionably compensated for my lack of prior musical knowledge by rating songs either excellently or proceeding to rant about how a certain track was "GOD AWFUL" without any justifications behind them. I still do sometimes, but I try my best to justify it.

I'm willing to assume that those (and there are quite a few) who cannot rate a song or discuss a label's flaws without ranting on and neglecting to justify their opinions are in a similar boat. They simply are not knowledgeable about eurobeat's framework that they cannot help but infuriate others mistakingly. Honestly, the only way you can stop this is for an administrator to add abhorrently harsh rules that restricts members from ever rating songs or discussing labels. What sort of forum are you going to have then? Fairly humdrum if you ask me.

By the way, I enjoyed Red Code, My Blue Sky and California Dreaming.

Well-crafted and eloquently worded. Thank you for responding calmly and politely.

I suppose I did lump the rest of the members into the mess a bit too quickly, and for that I should apologize. I tend to lean towards the emotional and passionate when I type about something I feel anything strong about. And, granted, a lot of users HAVE been explaining what they haven't liked and whatnot about some recent tracks, be they ABeatC or otherwise. I wouldn't wish to impose rules infringing on anyone's particular ability to express an opinion.

However, the point still does stand that we could stand to be a bit more civil when discussing a crashing label. Yes, there'll always be strong opinions (mine of SAIFAM, if I expressed them as freely as I could, would be QUITE strong), but as a forum of individuals that, as I can tell from experience (well... experience enough), actually have enough intelligence to back up their opinions to a small extent, even if they just said "________ part of ________ was weak", it is in the interest of the members to do so. It's not necessarily for the sake of censoring opinions, as much as for the sense that the people that wrote, composed, produced, etc. that song may be reading EVERY word. It's much like speaking the same words off the computer: does it make it any better/worse to say it alone or among friends if the person being discussed is NOT present to hear it? Wouldn't it change if that person was staring the other person in the face? They, too, could stand to ignore the insults, but when they begin to stack up, can they be so easily ignored? Even SCP, if I'm not mistaken, had some doubts on their entries at one time, if I recall another thread's post right.

I suppose I'm just a tad overconcerned about the status of ABeatC and their continual production of Eurobeat. As a musician myself, I've seen the effects of consistent negative commentary (not constructive criticism, mind you) on an individual's work (and, conversely, the individual), and it's not pretty. Would we really wish that on Rodgers? Nuage? Annalise? Anyone at ABeatC? SAIFAM? ANYone in the Eurobeat industry?

And, I actually rather enjoyed California Dreamin' and Red Code (Yes, that's how it's registered in ASCAP, I imagine "Core" was a slipup on Avex's part), they just didn't have that "Dave Rodgers Smash" sound that, say, Deja Vu or Eldorado or Space Boy or The Race is Over or [insert well-known Dave Rodgers hit here] did. Dave Rodgers tends to do very well when his intros/synths (see? I may not be getting the terms right myself ) are speedy, single-note-at-a-time (or at least not as slow-chord-based like the aforementioned recent tunes), and (decidedly) catchy. (...maybe a field trip to Hi-NRG Attack is in order? Oooh, a Dave Rodgers/Franz Tornado collabo... The thought gives me goosebumps, nyoro~n) Given the rate at which ABeatC has been producing songs, maybe it'd be in their best interest to slow down and really focus on some stronger pieces, maybe concentrating their eggs into fewer baskets.

(Aaaaand then there's crap like what I put on my Myspace. XP )

EDIT: Whoa. Rodgers is smoking? *smacks forehead* What POSSIBLE good will that do his voice???

[lightsol]

Thank you for saying that. A Beat C will always be my "first love" of eurobeat and everyone owes Giancarlo a great deal for all he has done to put eurobeat on the map.

Eurobeat wouldn't be the same without each label and I don't think most of us know even 1/10th of the amount of work that goes into doing all that they do...

I know that my producer lives in Japanese time, even though he isn't in Japan... so that he can be awake for his clients. Can you imagine?

[Bore]

*Feels the love*

[#Infinity]

EDIT: Whoa. Rodgers is smoking? *smacks forehead* What POSSIBLE good will that do his voice???

Yeah, just look at some of the pictures on his personal website (www.daverodgers.it; particularly under "Various"). Unfortunately, the same thing applies to Clara Moroni and probably the majority of other eurobeat vocalits as well.

Not wanting to be harsh, I agree right now that A-Beat C should stay aboard the Super Eurobeat series, but the amount of songs they get per album seems a bit excessive imo.