Saifam (Asia) @ Juno Download!

[xiao]

　　

[magiblot]

But clipping and brickwalling aren't the same thing, aren't they? (I assumed clipping was the only artifact caused by "the loudness war")
I have seen clipping in many modern SEB tracks but only Saifam's had brickwalling.
In fact, it seems to me that it was from a certain point in time that their songs began to include brickwalling.

[Lebon14]

But clipping and brickwalling aren't the same thing, aren't they? (I assumed clipping was the only artifact caused by "the loudness war")
I have seen clipping in many modern SEB tracks but only Saifam's had brickwalling.
In fact, it seems to me that it was from a certain point in time that their songs began to include brickwalling.

Yes, they are the same. Brickwalling is the F word equivalent of "clipping", "loudness war" and "compression". It's when producers make the sound so loud that...
1. it distorts
2. there's no difference between quiet and loud

drnrg: all your whoes could be fixed with a tagging function in files called "ReplayGain". Look it up. Foobar2000 can even do it all automatically for you.

[magiblot]

Yes, they are the same. Brickwalling is the F word equivalent of "clipping", "loudness war" and "compression". It's when producers make the sound so loud that...
1. it distorts
2. there's no difference between quiet and loud

Then, why is it that some clipped songs sound distorted and others not?

[Lebon14]

Then, why is it that some clipped songs sound distorted and others not?

It always depends on how much compressed (how flat, no sound variation) the song is. The lower his dynamic range, the more likely it's going to sound distorted. Sometimes though, but rarely, the sound is very very loud and very very compressed but somehow doesn't sound distorted... it happens but remember that all sound is loud, there is no quiet regardless.

What you can do is go here:
http://dr.loudness-war.info/

There's a tool available to be able to calculate the dynamic range. It's available separately for Windows and Mac. Also available as a plugin for Windows' foobar2000.

Let's take an exemple. "Fire In The Night" by Ken Martin. The song is pretty compressed. Avex normalized at ~85% and did some declipping on SEB 234. As a single, the song score a dynamic range of 4. On SEB, it rates as 6 (so, yes, it sounds better on SEB). Look up the waveforms.

Never Know Why is another exemple. It sounds abysmal. Even on SEB. Avex only did a normal normaliztion at 90%. This doesn't improve the sound in any way. It has a dynamic range of 3. And it distorts. I wouldn't be surprised if "Tokyo To Milano (All Around The World)" score something like a 2. 20 is the best btw.

You know the meme "Brain Power" by Noma that surfaced with the help of twitch? Aka:
O-oooooooooo AAAAE-A-A-I-A-U-
JO-oooooooooooo AAE-O-A-A-U-U-A-
E-eee-ee-eee AAAAE-A-E-I-E-A-
JO-ooo-oo-oo-oo EEEEO-A-AAA-AAAA

On Noma's first album, where the song is released in extended version, its dynamic range score is........ 1. The worst score. It's EXTREMELY LOUD. Brickwalled to the bone. SOmehow, it still manage to sound good on first glance. But god, you down't listen to this track 10 times in a row. Lack of dynamic range do that too: headches, listening tireness, etc.

[drnrg]

But clipping and brickwalling aren't the same thing, aren't they? (I assumed clipping was the only artifact caused by "the loudness war")
I have seen clipping in many modern SEB tracks but only Saifam's had brickwalling.
In fact, it seems to me that it was from a certain point in time that their songs began to include brickwalling.

Yes, they are the same. Brickwalling is the F word equivalent of "clipping", "loudness war" and "compression". It's when producers make the sound so loud that...
1. it distorts
2. there's no difference between quiet and loud

drnrg: all your whoes could be fixed with a tagging function in files called "ReplayGain". Look it up. Foobar2000 can even do it all automatically for you.

Interesting. I do use foobar since you turned me on to it.

[magiblot]

Never Know Why is another exemple. It sounds abysmal. Even on SEB. Avex only did a normal normaliztion at 90%. This doesn't improve the sound in any way. It has a dynamic range of 3. And it distorts. I wouldn't be surprised if "Tokyo To Milano (All Around The World)" score something like a 2. 20 is the best btw.

For your interest, I took the preview audios both from JunoDownload and Unleash the Beats and tested them.

Tokyo To Milano (All Around The World) (2:00 cut) (JunoDownload)

Code: Select all

-----------------------------------------------
 Statistics for:    Tokyo To Milano_All Around The World by Tipsy _ Tipsy on MP3, WAV, FLAC, AIFF _ ALAC at Juno Download.MP3
 Number of Samples: 5305651
-----------------------------------------------

                  left              right

 Peak value:      over      ---     over
 Avg RMS:        -3.85 dB   ---    -3.79 dB
 DR channel:      3.26 dB   ---     3.20 dB
-----------------------------------------------

 Official DR value:  DR3 
===============================================

Tokyo to Milano (All Around the World) (The Factory Team Mix) (4:06) (Unleash the Beats) (sounds as distorted as in JunoDownload)

Code: Select all

-----------------------------------------------
 Statistics for:    ARD1412A01M_Tipsy & Tipsy_Tokyo To Milano (All Around The World)_The Factory Team Mix_ITC941706316.mp3
 Number of Samples: 10867968
-----------------------------------------------

                  left              right

 Peak value:      over      ---     over
 Avg RMS:        -3.87 dB   ---    -3.82 dB
 DR channel:      2.83 dB   ---     2.80 dB
-----------------------------------------------

 Official DR value:  DR3 
===============================================

But it seeems to me that the DR value isn't a definitive indication of sound distortion. I have made other tests, and there are songs with low DR scoring and with a totally cut waveform that don't sound distorted at all. A good example of this is "Fight" by Rich Hard.

Code: Select all

-----------------------------------------------
 Statistics for:    DirectShowSource.wav
 Number of Samples: 11176087
-----------------------------------------------

                  left              right

 Peak value:      over      ---     over
 Avg RMS:        -5.28 dB   ---    -4.99 dB
 DR channel:      4.43 dB   ---     4.22 dB
-----------------------------------------------

 Official DR value:  DR4 
===============================================

I think it would be worth messaging The Factory Team about this issue.

[Lebon14]

The DR value is indeed not a definitive sign of distortion. However, the lower the value, the more chance there is.
DR3 is in line with the Mela track of SEB 243.

You can message them, but they won't like give a flying f*, tbh. It doesn't cost anything though.

[Rain197]

Let's take an exemple. "Fire In The Night" by Ken Martin. The song is pretty compressed. Avex normalized at ~85% and did some declipping on SEB 234. As a single, the song score a dynamic range of 4. On SEB, it rates as 6 (so, yes, it sounds better on SEB). Look up the waveforms.

Maybe it sound better on SEB234 but is that me or "Fire In The Night" is slower on this album ?

Now we know avex don't like high BPM, "Mela - Change Your Time" is 170 BPM, but 158BPM on SEB233...

[magiblot]

The DR value is indeed not a definitive sign of distortion. However, the lower the value, the more chance there is.
DR3 is in line with the Mela track of SEB 243.

You can message them, but they won't like give a flying f*, tbh. It doesn't cost anything though.

Their contact e-mail is customerservice@thesaifamgroup.com. I could message them right away but I don't have a lot of knowledge about musical technical stuff. I'll wait to see if somebody else from here decides to get in touch with them.

Maybe it sound better on SEB234 but is that me or "Fire In The Night" is slower on this album ?

Now we know avex don't like high BPM, "Mela - Change Your Time" is 170 BPM, but 158BPM on SEB233...

The 40 Best of Eurobeat version of "Fire In The Night" has the same lenght than the SEB version. (Silence at 5:25)

Let's take an exemple. "Fire In The Night" by Ken Martin. The song is pretty compressed. Avex normalized at ~85% and did some declipping on SEB 234. As a single, the song score a dynamic range of 4. On SEB, it rates as 6 (so, yes, it sounds better on SEB). Look up the waveforms.

I just noticed you are right, so I'll post the measurements to strengthen your statement.
I'm assuming the 40 Best of Eurobeat version equals the single release, though I might be wrong on this...

Code: Select all

#################################
SAIFAM VERSION
#################################
-----------------------------------------------
 Statistics for:    06 - Ken Martin - Fire in the Night (The Factory Team Mix).mp3
 Number of Samples: 13526831
-----------------------------------------------

                  left              right

 Peak value:      over      ---     over
 Avg RMS:        -5.40 dB   ---    -5.48 dB
 DR channel:      4.04 dB   ---     4.24 dB
-----------------------------------------------

 Official DR value:  DR4 
===============================================
#################################
SEB VERSION
#################################
-----------------------------------------------
 Statistics for:    01. Ken Martin - Fire in the Night.mp3
 Number of Samples: 14554195
-----------------------------------------------

                  left              right

 Peak value:     -0.00 dB   ---    -0.00 dB
 Avg RMS:        -7.43 dB   ---    -7.57 dB
 DR channel:      6.01 dB   ---     6.08 dB
-----------------------------------------------

 Official DR value:  DR6 
===============================================

[Rain197]

Not on junodownload but I found this on iTunes :

SAIFAM EUROBEAT COLLECTION COMPILED BY MARK FARINA
2015/04/09
JPY 900
14 tracks
https://itunes.apple.com/jp/album/saifa ... d986812815

SAIFAM EUROBEAT COLLECTION THE 2000'S COMPILED BY MARK FARINA
2015/04/25
JPY 1200
18 tracks
https://itunes.apple.com/jp/album/saifa ... d989543543

SAIFAM EUROBEAT COLLECTION THE 90'S COMPILED BY MARK FARINA
2015/04/18
JPY 900
14 tracks
https://itunes.apple.com/jp/album/saifa ... d987463748

SAIFAM EUROBEAT COLLECTION 4 COMPILED BY MARK FARINA & DJ USHI
2015/07/04
JPY 1200
20 tracks
https://itunes.apple.com/jp/album/saifa ... 1015923085

[Crockett]

Supposedly "most" of series That's Eurobeat released from 1992 is offered on Juno (like my today's tune).

Orlando, Heartclub, Morgana, DJ Miko now got a stamp of Eurobeat. SAIFAM marketing entered into a new cosmic level. Money, money, money, Mauro Farina knows how to sell any music...

[Vulpini]

Upcoming song although not releasd on junodownload yet it can be heard on unleashthebeats.

Mister Tom - The Flame Of Love (The Factory Team Mix)

[Lebon14]

Decent...

Go here: https://www.unleashthebeats.com/music
Search for "Mister Tom" (Tap Enter to send search). It's the last result.

[Rain197]

I just can't dislike when it is Fabio Serra to the vocals.
Instant win for me !!
I hope it will appear on Super Eurobeat vol.246