Super Eurobeat 204

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Bore
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Post by Bore » 16 Jun 2010, 14:01

In some ways I can see the reasoning behind drnrg's claims, yet at the same time I don't. There's a certain athmosphere when you admit to liking mainstream music as opposed to the so called niche genres. When masses like a certain genre of music it's basically considered crap by all of the people with "Street credibility". It's just a sad way of trying to earn credibility when you bash the mainstream genres just for being mainstream.

I would have done the same myself in the past. Deny liking Britney Spears or the likes. But the fact is that by time I've grown past that and I at least can easily admit to liking the likes of Lady Gaga and other POP-music acts. It isn't a swear word to me and well, it's maybe just my interpretion of things, but I am thinking that drnrg has the same sort of logic behind it.

Mainstream = Bad
Pop = Mainstream
Pop = Bad

But yea, Jay threw down the same arguments I would have used myself. The same thing can be applied to the genres that are more "valued" by _real_ musicians (as we all know, people who do pop-music aren't actually real musicians, they're just some kids playing around with synthetizers). I just think it's a crap excuse for bashing certain genres. I may not like a genre but I honestly have no valid reasons to go calling any genre crap, it's just not my cup of tea.

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Post by drnrg » 16 Jun 2010, 15:44

jay
You're not doing a very good job of rationalising why you hate pop music.
Of course I have. I just stated that every genre that starts going for the basic pop sound, soon after dies off. that's my main reason.

but anyways,I basically disagree with POP music for what it stands for. It's not just that it sounds the same. I'm saying that every POP artist nowadays wants to sound like the other one on purpose just for the sake of "cashing it in". Pop music was not like that before. Not in the 80s and not in the 90's. Now adays Pop music is basically a joke with all the same lyrics and melodies. They are all using auto tune and to top it off , it's not even about the music anymore. It's more a fasion show than anything else. even the lyrics are blatantly about making money and being rich.Remeber I'm only applying this to the Western(American) POp music Scene. I don't know the European scene, so I leave them out of this.

Now before you say that that applies to Eurobeat. I say yes! I totally agree, but its been that way since it's Italo days. That is the basic structure of Eurobeat. however , each label has thier own sound, beacuse of The producers and studios and they are not trying to sound like each other and they are not ripping each other off on ideas. Another difference is; that since thier are no live performers, you can actually hear the passion they put into thier work ,because they actually rely on the music to get across to the fans.

where as the latest POP songs from Gaga, Beyonce, Rihanna, Bieber sound so entirely alike, that they can even team up and you wouldn't know the difference. I know they are all on differnt labels, but can you honestly tell what artist is from what label, cuz I cant? It's only a matter of TIME before Taylor Swift teams up with Gaga just for the sake of making a POP song. Hopefully that makes my argument a little less debatable

Jay
You're not doing a very good job of rationalising why you hate pop music. Really, most of the issues you've raised are applicable to eurobeat as well. What I find particularly ironic is how you consider HRG to be one of your favourite eurobeat labels, yet that label is the frontrunner in what most of us would consider generic and repetitious eurobeat. Go figure?
The reason I like HRG and Eurogrooves the most, is because they are not trying to change thier sound overnight. It doesn't sound like they are trying to appeal to the Pop crowd at all and I commend them for standing thier ground. HRG have a lot of samey sounding songs ,but it's thier style ,that sets them apart from the other lables. So yes; Eurobeat is guilty of the same structure, riffs and lyrics, but at least you can the difference from each of the labels and producers sounds. I know that AVEX is probiobly on thier backs about the quality of thier latest releases, but it's still just basically the labels doing music the way they want to.


Ayway, to close off, it's not so much that I hate POP music , because everyone has that one guilty pleaure on thier charts; it's more that I hate what it does to the artists and genres....and as I stated allready; what it stands for and has become with each passing year. You could even say, as Bore stated, that I hate labeing music as POP, because you immediatley associate that band with the word "Sell Out" once they become regulars on the POP charts. Nickelback has gone from a hard Rock band to a POP band, but I don't hate thier music. I just hate the fact that the music industry thinks that every other band should sound like Nickelback in order to sell records.

Eurobeat rocks , because the genre isn't trying to be popular. They producers are not trying to outdo each other and let's face it, the producers are not swimming in cash, so they are basically just creating music for the fans the same way it's been done since the start. Eurobeat is a small spec in the music buiss, but has outlived many other genres, beacuse it doesn't become just another POP genre. In fact ,my biggest fear has always been for Eurobeat to suddenly become popular with one top 10 hit after another, because that would ensure it's unevitable demise.

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Post by Javy » 16 Jun 2010, 18:22

drnrg wrote:where as the latest POP songs from Gaga, Beyonce, Rihanna, Bieber sound so entirely alike, that they can even team up and you wouldn't know the difference. I know they are all on differnt labels, but can you honestly tell what artist is from what label, cuz I cant?
You can't because you don't listen to them on a regular basis, just as someone who never listens to eurobeat can't tell the difference between eurobeat labels apart. I work in a music store so I spend time listening to pop and after a while you do notice the distinction between different producers styles. One producer that has a clear distinct still more than others is RedOne who's work is most commonly heard through Lady GaGa. Saying Rihanna, Lady GaGa and Justin Bieber (who I loathe so I am not defending him in anyway) sound alike is just like saying Dave ROdgers, Bazooka Girl and Stephy sound alike. And face Avex's job is to make eurobeat popular again.And you never really state in what manner they sound alike. If all pop sounds incomparable with each other then so does eurobeat
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Post by drnrg » 16 Jun 2010, 21:52

Javy
You can't because you don't listen to them on a regular basis, just as someone who never listens to eurobeat can't tell the difference between eurobeat labels apart. I work in a music store so I spend time listening to pop and after a while you do notice the distinction between different producers styles. One producer that has a clear distinct still more than others is RedOne who's work is most commonly heard through Lady GaGa. Saying Rihanna, Lady GaGa and Justin Bieber (who I loathe so I am not defending him in anyway) sound alike is just like saying Dave ROdgers, Bazooka Girl and Stephy sound alike. And face Avex's job is to make eurobeat popular again.And you never really state in what manner they sound alike. If all pop sounds incomparable with each other then so does eurobeat
You are right I don't listen to POP at all. At least not American POp. Only on the weekly Rick Dees radio shows ect...and that's only to see where Daughtry and Kelly Clarkson clock in.

Ok here is another argument. If POP isn't a pardoy of itself by intentionally having one song sound exactly like the other, then why is it that that Beyonce went from her own R&B style to now completly wanting to sound and even team up with Gaga? Beyonce's "Single Ladies" as a song still had its own distinct sound. Now It's just one "Telephone" sounding track after the other....and the image and ideas of modern POP songs(Ke$ha, 3 OH! 3) are not at all what I would like my Children to absorb(if I had any to begin with).

there are a lot of better POP artists out there who make good music. I don't If any of you are familiar with Mika(not our own member, Mika), but he writes good upbeat dancable songs but you will probobly never hear him in the American Top 40 untill his music sounds like Flo- Rida. Justn Beiber is just the music industries way to replace Justin Timberlake, who has become nothing more than a cameo in other peoples songs.

I actually like POP music from other countries. Most of you would probobly be surprised to see just how much pop artists appear on my lists. bands like Donkeyboy, Rougue Traders, Evan Taubenfeld,Annie,Robbie Williams, Mika. They all make good enjoyable POP music, but are not trying to sound like each other by singing about the same themes or teaming up to ensure thier popularity.That's what's wrong with American POP.

from now I'm going to refer to it as American Pop music, cuz those are the offenders of my rant. American Pop music is the last desperate step to make a buck. The artists' last oppotrunity to make it big. ..and in the end it leaves just about every rock star, for lack of a better word, sucked up and dried out of any creative talent.

Listen to Timabland's Shock Value II to hear What I concider the beggining POP music's Doom. Daughtry and even Chad Kroeger from Nickelback actually team up with Timbaland on the compilation. Horrid material that sounds like a laboratory expiriment gone wrong. Last year Duran Duran also teamd up with Timba and Timberlake, thinking they would have a number one albume. Big Mistake and probobly the biggest flop of thier carrer? Now they not only have to write another album, but they have to recapture the sound that thier fans expect to hear from them.

same TIME next year you will be hearing Gaga team up with Nickelback and Shakira. That is what's wrong with American POP music.

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Post by DJ Mike TJG » 17 Jun 2010, 06:41

All I can say is: If you expect diversity in ANY genre, don't look at what the Top 40/100 is telling you.

How many times do we frown when Avex does a Top 100 Eurobeat songs at the end of every decade? The 'popular' choices that make it onto those albums are, more often than not, dull, overplayed, and some of the least interesting songs Eurobeat has to offer.

So too are the tracks deemed popular enough to make it into the Top 100. People are led like sheep when it comes to pop charts. If you market something aggressively enough through night clubs/bars, TV shows, radio, etc. you are bound to score a number 1 hit, and that's what these producers are aiming for.

Nevertheless, in amongst all that chaff are some genuinely good songs. Scissor Sisters have got a new album out in a couple of weeks, and of the tracks I've heard so far I'm really looking forward to it. Same goes for Kylie Minogue's new album. Whether either of them scores a number 1 with their new single remains to be seen - I hope so. It'd be a nice change from the awful tracks that do make number 1.

I suppose another point is that we probably have greater diversity in our UK charts if what you're saying is anything to go by. Some good tracks from artists like Train, Eliza Doolittle, Alicia Keys, Scouting For Girls, Paolo Nutini and many others have made the UK Top 40, and they are far from being trash.

So again, I really don't think Eurobeat has anything different in this regard from any other genre, other than it being a niche genre, and therefore below the scope of most people who will probably never know about it.

And trust me, the times I've tried to introduce Eurobeat to people, they dismiss it as "it all sounds exactly the same, and it's too hyper".

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Post by Javy » 17 Jun 2010, 11:37

Mika's 2009 We Are Golden did chart the American Top 40 and it's video did well in rotation too. Also Beyonce's stuff sounds noting like Gaga. Pop music is definitely different from each other but you clearly have such a hate for it that trying make you see that it pointless.
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Post by drnrg » 17 Jun 2010, 12:45

Mika barely grazed the U.S. Charts and its Beyonce's - Sweet Dream and Rihanna's Rude Boy that pratcicaly have the same melody.

Gaga is probobly the one artist who has a more European style than most of them, but in my defense have you heard Miley Cyrus's new song; Can't Be Tamed or Aguilera's - Not Myself Tonight? Even in the video Christaina looks like Gaga. This is actually aa remix of the song, but you get the idea. Even the comments on Youtube say what I say. They all copy each other and sound practically the same.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVlV7GO2 ... re=related

Anyway, here is thelastest deveolpement in gaga's music.Can't you hear the same melody of Ace Of Base- Don't Turn Around and Madonna's - La Isle Bonita in the Gaga -Alejandro song? Instead of Don't Turn Around just inserts Gaga's Don't Call My Name.LOL!!

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Post by DJ Mike TJG » 17 Jun 2010, 13:22

Haha, I can't believe you're onto the plagiarism angle now, on a EUROBEAT forum. :grin:

Wasn't there an entire thread dedicated to Eurobeat songs that rip each other off?

Let's face it, there's only so many combinations of notes that work together before you undoubtedly stumble upon something that somebody has already done before.

Lady GaGa has actually cited Ace Of Base as a strong influence in Alejandro, so it's not a surprise that you hear something of them in it. Happens to be why I rather like Alejandro, for that matter. To say it is a carbon copy of AoB is just plain ignorant. That would be like saying Oda is just a carbon copy of Dead Or Alive. His EB tracks might have been inspired by DoA but it's just ignorance to say its a complete rip-off.

Ace of Base were like reggae ABBA. ABBA was basically derived from simple classical melodies applied to a pop/rock beat. The beauty of pop like that is its pure simplicity, but to dismiss it as cheesy or uninspired or unoriginal... well, all I can say is you're living in a fantasy world. Eurobeat is about the height of plagiarism, not pop music.

Frankly I've gotten bored of buying new EB because, for me, there's nothing inspiring in it anymore - in the last 5 years the genre has gotten stuck in a rut that it has failed to come out of. Once upon a time I saw genuinely interesting and new creations coming out of the genre that were great to hear. Now, it feels like every year we're hearing stuff recycled over and over. That's plagiarism for you.

Oh, and these songs that Avex is pulling out from the archives of years ago? There's a good reason they were never released in the first place! They're sub-standard!

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Post by DarkSky » 17 Jun 2010, 21:03

I like SEB204.

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Post by drnrg » 17 Jun 2010, 21:46

DJ Mike TJG
Haha, I can't believe you're onto the plagiarism angle now, on a EUROBEAT forum.

Wasn't there an entire thread dedicated to Eurobeat songs that rip each other off?
But you're missing the whole point. I hardly say anything about Eurobeat, cuz Eurobeat has always been like that. It's pretty much it's backbone to rehash the same melody over and over, but we all knew that from the start and that's really one of the reasons I like it so much. The biggest offender in my eyes is HRG Attack and Dave Rodgers, but I love it!

Even the artists themselves admit it. Those who collect vinyl will recall Mike Skanner's -Hot Dog on AbeatC records? Even the sleeve said in big words "Parody" That song used the same melody as Boom Boom Dollars, Hot Girl, Sugar baby, Doctor LOve, Touch me ect.... I'm usually the first one to popint those similiarities out.

My main beef is that back in the 80s and 90s Pop Music wasn't so blatantly sounding like each other. The songs used different melodies and hooks. None of Duran Duran's songs song alike? None of the Cars songs sound alike? Even Micheal Jackson showed versatility in his music. and none of them where Sampeling or a better word "ripping " each other off.

That's my main concern with tye diraction American POP music is going for nowadays. and I think it all began with Hammer and Vanilla Ice and has gone straight to the shitter from that point on.Haha! and speaking of DOA, can anyone say Flo Rida :D

I probobly wouldn't dismiss Gaga so much if I didn't wintness how much every other female POP star wants to sound and look like her. Shame On Christina Aguilera! :( Watch the Telephone video. It's not Gaga looking like Beyonce. It's Beyonce looking like Gaga.


What I notice is that most of you are almost using my American POP music rant as an excuse to bring out your rants about Eurobeat :???:

DJ Mike TJG
Oh, and these songs that Avex is pulling out from the archives of years ago? There's a good reason they were never released in the first place! They're sub-standard!
Right here I agree with you 100%. I even made a complete joke about there not yet released track list for SEB 206. Either that or AVEX just aren't picking out the right songs.

what they should do is have the labels produce new music for the first 12 tracks and leave one of those last two spaces for one unreleased song and that's it. They can keep the j-Euro remix, but that last slot could be put to better use.

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Post by Densetsu13 » 18 Jun 2010, 00:02

drnrg wrote:I probobly wouldn't dismiss Gaga so much if I didn't wintness how much every other female POP star wants to sound and look like her. Shame On Christina Aguilera! :( Watch the Telephone video. It's not Gaga looking like Beyonce. It's Beyonce looking like Gaga.
There's a reason for that. The two of them wanted to collaborate with each other so they each featured on each other's new albums. First came Videophone in which Gaga was all up in Beyonce's shit, and Gaga emulating Beyonce's style. Then came Telephone where Beyonce is all up in Gaga's turf and emulating Gaga's style.

Clearly Telephone was the better track (and video) of the two.

*shudders at the thought of the horribleness that is Videophone*

So yeah, just an FYI and the fact that I always jump at the opportunity to let the world know how bad Videophone is.

Now by all means, please go back to this argument that makes no sense. I admit it's redundant, yet amusing 8)

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Post by Javy » 18 Jun 2010, 13:31

I am not surprised Alejandro sounds like AOB/Madonna. Lady Gaga and I are the same and from the same neighborhood. So if she listened to any radio like I did at a young age in the early 90s than all she would have been listening to is Ace Of Base and Madonna. And if anything Xtina isn't looking like Gaga but Madonna in her early 90s phase.
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Post by DJ Mike TJG » 18 Jun 2010, 14:40

drnrg wrote:My main beef is that back in the 80s and 90s Pop Music wasn't so blatantly sounding like each other. The songs used different melodies and hooks. None of Duran Duran's songs song alike? None of the Cars songs sound alike? Even Micheal Jackson showed versatility in his music. and none of them where Sampeling or a better word "ripping " each other off.
Not really true - every decade has seen numerous artists spring up to copy a more famous act. Heck, the 80s was infamous for the Hit Factory that was Stock, Aitken, Waterman - so many of their 'artists' had sound-alike songs that one had to wonder which was which, and that was just the three of them rehashing their own material! Not to mention all the other producers who followed suit.

Then you can go back to the 60s with The Beatles - how many copycats followed to try to ride their wave of success?

I'm not having a go at artists like Michael Jackson, Madonna and Duran Duran. The point is they did have a lot of versality.

BUT, for every one of those original artists, you could probably find 10 others that copied them and rehased their material.

The reason that it feels like they were unique and original is because they were the ones that lasted. The originals shine brightest and best and far outlast any copycats that tried to emulate them.

So yes, if you see plagiarism in the charts now, it's more than likely this is true. But in amongst all the copycat artists are the true gems, and these are the ones that will last. Right now, Lady GaGa is being emulated because other artists are trying to outdo her. Only time will tell who is remembered.

Oh, and for the record... I hope I never have to hear of the bulls*it artist that is Ke$ha in years from now. What a joke!

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Post by drnrg » 18 Jun 2010, 21:58

DJ Mike TJG
Not really true - every decade has seen numerous artists spring up to copy a more famous act. Heck, the 80s was infamous for the Hit Factory that was Stock, Aitken, Waterman - so many of their 'artists' had sound-alike songs that one had to wonder which was which, and that was just the three of them rehashing their own material! Not to mention all the other producers who followed suit.
You seems to jump on SAW's back alot. For starters ,the most part of thier catalog was Hi-NRG, which was a good developement for music and a big part of why we have Eurobeat today, so I can't possibly complain. They did have a lot of carbon copies, Dance Society = DOA, Jason Donvon= Rick Astly,ect.. but those were still good songs. Thier biggest artits sounded nothing like each other. DOA& Rick Astly and they had some great singers as well, Banana Ramma, Kylie,(I liked Samantha Fox and Divine too)and who can forget the classic Paul Lekakis hit, Boom Boom Let's Go back In My Room. Gino Caria sang it too under his Angelo Maria Morales alias. I even like when Newfield produces a SAW inspired song for DELTA label.


As for the 60, You are right again, but even those Rock Stars tried to sound different from each other. The Rolling Stones, The Who and the musical developement from that point on was amazing. Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, The Eagles ect..
I'm not having a go at artists like Michael Jackson, Madonna and Duran Duran. The point is they did have a lot of versality.
I'm glad you agree you agree. Now try applying that to anyone American POP star right now. They are trying to outdo each other and since we are at a such a low point in music nowadays, the songs and artist just keep getting worse and worse. You even admited to it being a Joke. and what's happening is that once talented artists like Christina Aguilera are trading in thier talent for a stupid fasion show this is 2000s POP music.

Musically speaking the industry is going backwards and it shows in the 2000s. If I could I would go back in TIME and keep that one IDIOT from creating auto tune, cuz now its' all over the charts like bad virus.

Let's see what kinda Musical developement ride artists like Ke$ha and 3OH!3 can takes us on. I doubt it will be a good one. I doubt any of themn will be around in 10 years. Hah! even 3 years is too much for them to live out. :P

Hopefully now you get what I'm saying? :wink:

Oh, and for the record... I hope I never have to hear of the bulls*it artist that is Ke$ha in years from now. What a joke!
You can add 3OH!3 to that list. They were meant to team up and create that abomination that is "My First Kiss" :D

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Post by the_ditz » 18 Jun 2010, 23:28

At the end of the day, every genre has artists that try to emulate other artists' success and the easiest way to do this is to copy their sound. However it is quite closed-minded to argue that every pop artist sounds the same. Maybe this is just the case in the uk, but there are so many different styles and sounds in the chart now. Can't we just agree that drnrg doesn't like modern pop and for that reason his opinions and expectations will always be lower than his true passion - eurobeat?

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