Super Eurobeat 211

Everything that is eurobeat can be discussed here.
drnrg
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Post by drnrg » 28 Jan 2011, 10:51

MAtRiCks
and whoever still bothers writing at Hi-NRG Attack seem very determined not to give a flying fcuk about the chord progression and overall emotion of their tracks.
WHat? Are we even listening to the same trax??? Whatever...That just seems like a personal attack on the label for no apparant reason whatsoever. :o

MAtRiCks
Eurobeat Boom
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Post by MAtRiCks » 28 Jan 2011, 12:50

I don't mean to offend you, drnrg. You've been harsh yourself on labels you thought weren't giving you what you wanted to hear before, why so defensive now?

I read your post and thought what the hell, I might as well double-check hi-nrg's latest efforts. I listened to The Magic Of Sunshine again, and it's so random it's impossible to see a sensical melodic progression all around. The happy chorus and the melancholic synthline sound like they've been taken from two separate tracks, both a and b melos are flat and interchangeable, and the overall product perfectly exposes what I dislike about their new writing, engineering and vocal processing style.

Please take a minute to listen to TMOS and My Love Romance... One of them almost brings me to tears everytime from full-on emotion and beautifully constructed melodic structure. guess which?

I'm elaborating about this because I want to make it clear I don't express point of views that are not founded by solid impressions. In the end, you can agree with me or not, but you can't say my criticism is based on no apparent reasons whatsoever.

thejti
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Post by thejti » 28 Jan 2011, 14:16

MAtRiCks wrote:I don't mean to offend you, drnrg. You've been harsh yourself on labels you thought weren't giving you what you wanted to hear before, why so defensive now?

I read your post and thought what the hell, I might as well double-check hi-nrg's latest efforts. I listened to The Magic Of Sunshine again, and it's so random it's impossible to see a sensical melodic progression all around. The happy chorus and the melancholic synthline sound like they've been taken from two separate tracks, both a and b melos are flat and interchangeable, and the overall product perfectly exposes what I dislike about their new writing, engineering and vocal processing style.

Please take a minute to listen to TMOS and My Love Romance... One of them almost brings me to tears everytime from full-on emotion and beautifully constructed melodic structure. guess which?

I'm elaborating about this because I want to make it clear I don't express point of views that are not founded by solid impressions. In the end, you can agree with me or not, but you can't say my criticism is based on no apparent reasons whatsoever.
I think what he's trying to say is that the way your first criticism was was completely shut down and negative. Your explanation in the second post was a little better but still overly negative without saying "I might like this better". The problem is that many producers and writers have come here and have seen the very negative posts have gotten very upset with the fans and have gotten to the point where they're asking themselves "we make our releases digital and they're not buying it, we come on the forums and instead of constructive criticism they completely shut down our music". If you notice theres a lot of artists, producers and writers that no longer frequent the forums and/or make eurobeat anymore. Some of them have expressed that the fans just don't appreciate them anymore. The argument of "oh they should have tough skin" doesn't matter if the fans don't seem to care for what they put out.
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Vadim
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Post by Vadim » 28 Jan 2011, 16:20

thejti wrote: If you notice theres a lot of artists, producers and writers that no longer frequent the forums and/or make eurobeat anymore. Some of them have expressed that the fans just don't appreciate them anymore. The argument of "oh they should have tough skin" doesn't matter if the fans don't seem to care for what they put out.
Lemme tell you..there is no other eurobeat team that received as much fan/forum criticism as HRG did in the past....They had many more incentives to just drop this eurobeat thing than any other label...

Yet, they did a very different thing...as opposed to slamming the door, they have actually sat down and listened to our criticisms, and instead of taking all sorts of offences, they got to fixing the problems right away...

In the past, I slammed HRG outright and on sight for so many reasons...
but look at me now...I am totally counting days and even minutes till I can get my hands on that Lilly track...'cause damn I wantz it so bad...!!!

Jay
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Post by Jay » 28 Jan 2011, 19:08

thejti wrote:The problem is that many producers and writers have come here and have seen the very negative posts have gotten very upset with the fans and have gotten to the point where they're asking themselves "we make our releases digital and they're not buying it, we come on the forums and instead of constructive criticism they completely shut down our music". If you notice theres a lot of artists, producers and writers that no longer frequent the forums and/or make eurobeat anymore. Some of them have expressed that the fans just don't appreciate them anymore. The argument of "oh they should have tough skin" doesn't matter if the fans don't seem to care for what they put out.
Jorge, I recall that you made a very similar post to this one several years back, yet you never specified which producers/writers have actually left the eurobeat scene due to harsh fan criticism. I said it back then and I'll say it again now, but it's hard to take this point of yours seriously when you can't drop a few names. But even if you could, these producers/writers most likely had other reasons for leaving the eurobeat scene. I don't know about you but I find it VERY hard to believe a producer/writer would just completely stop creating eurobeat because a few of us didn't appreciate their music. I don't doubt that it was one of many catalysts in their decision to leave, but as a central reason? I doubt it. If these producers were seriously ready to leave the genre after reading our remarks, then that says more about their passion and dedication to the genre (or lack thereof).

I seriously think it's time for the producers/writers to toughen up and learn to accept criticism in all its forms. This is what this forum has always been used for - to express our opinions on certain songs/albums without fear of being shushed. Sure, it can get quite heated here sometimes, but compared to the past I think the opinions expressed here are rather tame. We shouldn't need to sugarcoat or censor our thoughts in fear that a producer/writer is going to leave the eurobeat scene because we're being too harsh. If that's going to be the case, then yes, it's best that they don't visit the forum. Like I've always said though, the producers and artists should be very glad that the members here haven't stooped as low as to wish death on them, since that's what happens all the time to the likes of Lady Gaga, Britney Spears, etc. (and they're still around!).

Finally, that point you made about fans not caring about digital releases sounds like bollocks to me. I actually find this statement distasteful considering I've spent hundreds of dollars on iTunes, Juno, Music Master and SAIFAM digital releases over the years on top of all the money I've spent on my SEB collection. If the producers/writers seriously believe we're not buying them often enough, then I'm sorry to say but their expectations are simply too high. They need to understand that they're not going to sell hundreds upon hundreds of copies of their digital releases due to the very underground nature of eurobeat, but we do what we can.

Anyway, MAtRiCks' claim that 'The Magic of Sunshine' lacks emotion is the most ridiculous thing I've ever read on these forums.
Last edited by Jay on 28 Jan 2011, 19:35, edited 8 times in total.

zoupzuop2
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Post by zoupzuop2 » 28 Jan 2011, 19:10

I've created a monster.

Look, it's not a matter that slow songs are all bad baddy McBadness and need to go away, or such excellent goodness that it should take over. I merely meant to say that too much of something is often unhealthy. I know HRG is sort of 'required' to make them, and they're good at that, so I let them off the hook.

tl;dr: I just think SEB needs a different balance than the samples showed. That's all.
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n . paganini
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Post by n . paganini » 29 Jan 2011, 00:28

Ciao People,

I followed this topic since the start and i really do not understand why there are so much critics about SEB 211????? Let,s get, one thing straight. Eurobeat is as healthy in sounds as it ever was, there is much diversity in sounds, tempo,s and ideas. I couldn,t believed my ears when i heard the samples of SEB 211. In my opinion there is something to enjoy for everybody. Offcourse everybody has the right to express their feelings about their beloved music, that,s the beauty of music, it appeals many people, yet there are so many tastes and likings, that,s normal, but try to do it in amore constructive way please.
I think Avex is trying to return more to it,s roots and to return to the more classic italo sounds.
I don,t think this necessarily a bad idea. With this aproach you could appeal a possible bigger crowd, maybe Avex is trying to reach a bigger audience and also trying to reach the big masses,for instance the J pop crowd in Japan.
What i really don,t understand is why you are not able to get in touch with the labels yourself and give a good constructive feedback to them and express what you would like to see and hear for the future instead of blatantly spit your acid on here. I really do not understand why this is so difficult ?
let,s get one thing straigth : please respect the producers and get in touch with them, most labels really would like this. They are making music for us and not for the big masses.
I think that we can expect more slower stuff this year, Eurobeat might go back to the beginning when Eurobeat was actually italo disco and let,s face it, if Eurobeat wants to surive on the long term it really has to deform and get more mature, this is what,s going on right now. Personally i,m also a big fan of the fast sounds but i,m also aware and have so much passion for Eurobeat as a music genre, that i really couldn,t care less if slower beats were the only way to survive on the long term. We also have to be a little more realistic when it comes to eurobeat.

The deform of Eurobeat is ofcourse bound to rules, as i like experimentation, i really can,t condone influences from outside of Eurobeat music, i,m refering to Urban/Hiphop influences, this is not the way to go. I,m talking more oldschool italo vibe influences here.

I would like to hear more constructive opinions about the fact why SEB 211 is so terrible for some of you ? I know the arguments about slow bpms allready. what is it that stings so bad ? the sounds, ideas or maybe the denial that in the end slower beats means the survival of Eurobeat on the long term ?

Let us be happy and thankfull with the music that we have, i think some of you are not aware of the fact how beautifull and how healthy Eurobeat is as music style at the moment. If only you could see and open your hearts a little more for the directions and sounds that are going on right now !!

Ciao a Tutti !!

drnrg
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Post by drnrg » 29 Jan 2011, 05:04

MAtRiCks
I don't mean to offend you, drnrg. You've been harsh yourself on labels you thought weren't giving you what you wanted to hear before, why so defensive now?

This is true and I know exactly where are going with that and yes I'm not too fond of urban pop or trance style that SCP someTIMES incorporates in thier songs, but the huge difference there is that while I might straight hate songs like What Dyou Want from me and Transy/Pamsy , I can also straight out praise thier efforts for the Hotblade act or Jay Lehr songs.

What I'm trying to say, is that even when I dislike, or even straight hate a song, I'll state my strong convictions as to why I feel that way. and I'm not reffering to the comments made when I first listen to the previews.

MAtRiCks
I'm elaborating about this because I want to make it clear I don't express point of views that are not founded by solid impressions. In the end, you can agree with me or not, but you can't say my criticism is based on no apparent reasons whatsoever.
After reading your second post; you are right! I can't say that now. I don't agree, but at least something there to backup your statement.

Jay
Jorge, I recall that you made a very similar post to this one several years back, yet you never specified which producers/writers have actually left the eurobeat scene due to harsh fan criticism. I said it back then and I'll say it again now, but it's hard to take this point of yours seriously when you can't drop a few names. But even if you could, these producers/writers most likely had other reasons for leaving the eurobeat scene. I don't know about you but I find it VERY hard to believe a producer/writer would just completely stop creating eurobeat because a few of us didn't appreciate their music. I don't doubt that it was one of many catalysts in their decision to leave, but as a central reason? I doubt it. If these producers were seriously ready to leave the genre after reading our remarks, then that says more about their passion and dedication to the genre (or lack thereof).

I do agree with the magoraty of the above comments, but especially what jay said. If you can't take the heat, then maybe you are in the wrong business. I don't know any producer who has quit the genre because they came across a few negative comments.

Besides people in the music bizz are supposed to feed off thier fans, not the haters, so that would be no reason for them to quit...and seriously I would lose respect for that artist. Mo matter who it was. Besides we are talking about poeple who have been in this bizz for decades and have constantly been reinventing the sound. Eurobeat is a community of fighter and survivors. No way are they are just gonna get up and quit after reading a few harsh words.

It's one thing for a producer/writer to quit to pursue other musical direction, but because x someone says they don't like your song? No F***ing way!

At least That's were I stand.

Ricfiam
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Post by Ricfiam » 29 Jan 2011, 06:53

How can you tell anything about a song while you got only30 seconds to listen? Additionally, most of them are only the intro. I personally glad that we have slower and faster songs too currently. I love the Italo style so it is ok for me if eurobeat will go back with the style a bit.

Paganini, I agree fully, but. Let us know how to keep in touch with the producers/labels. Ok here's Darksky who representive Dima, and Gelmetti can be reached in email but where's Dave? Where's Stefano? For example. I also trying to be in contact with Mauro but it seems Saifam is not really interested in Eurobeat anymore. Sad.
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MAtRiCks
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Post by MAtRiCks » 29 Jan 2011, 07:38

See, the're nothing to make a fuss about. For every jaded and bitter eurobeater like me, there's a horde of pumped up and fully satisfied fans ready to bring up the mood. Artists can safely read the boards and go back to the studio in full confidence! 8)

Let's just wait and hear the full album before deciding if Eurobeat is dead or not :grin:

thejti
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Post by thejti » 29 Jan 2011, 16:39

Jay wrote:Jorge, I recall that you made a very similar post to this one several years back, yet you never specified which producers/writers have actually left the eurobeat scene due to harsh fan criticism. I said it back then and I'll say it again now, but it's hard to take this point of yours seriously when you can't drop a few names.
You're right. I was one of the most vocal critics of music. But befrending and talking to some of these people over time makes you realize how hard they work on their craft. It opens your eyes on productions. I've tuned down my criticism big time over the year if you haven't noticed. As for dropping names it's really none of your business. It's one of those "said in confidentiality and trust" things.
Jay wrote:I seriously think it's time for the producers/writers to toughen up and learn to accept criticism in all its forms.
You could say that all you want but in the end if the fans keep not liking what they do what's the point in them wanting to make the music? They have way more economical opportunities that some are actually taking advantage of. Eurobeat more and more is becoming an afterthought to a lot of the producers and writers.
Jay wrote:Finally, that point you made about fans not caring about digital releases sounds like bollocks to me. I actually find this statement distasteful considering I've spent hundreds of dollars on iTunes, Juno, Music Master and SAIFAM digital releases over the years on top of all the money I've spent on my SEB collection. If the producers/writers seriously believe we're not buying them often enough, then I'm sorry to say but their expectations are simply too high. They need to understand that they're not going to sell hundreds upon hundreds of copies of their digital releases due to the very underground nature of eurobeat, but we do what we can.
This isn't fiction, it's fact. This fact is perpetuated by the fact that the entire music industry is down. And just because you pay for the music on all those sites doesn't mean everyone does. One of said producers has mentioned they don't know why they release the music on the sites when it just makes it easier to put on a torrent site. In Asia as a whole too, the piracy of music is very rampant making actually paying for music seem almost silly. I'm sort of hoping Apple actually goes along with the whole subscription plan they've been trying to work on that's sort of like Zune Marketplace (which I have and love) so that you pay a flat rate a month to have access to all the tracks. SCP actually released their singles on Zune so that's another avenue to check out if you want to pick up their tracks there.
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Megan188
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Post by Megan188 » 29 Jan 2011, 17:39

I dunno, I still love the majority of eurobeat that's being released today. Labels such as Dima and Hi-NRG Attack are still going stronger than ever. Others and I here try hard to support the eurobeat scene in general, and if this "harsh, negative" image is going to represent the entire community, then I'm going to feel a bit upset.

True, I clearly stated that I wasn't looking forward to SEB 211 and that I probably won't even buy it, but I also strictly gave my reasons. I don't think any of the labels are bad and should give up, I just think some of them, especially Eurogrooves and Saifam, are really struggling to find new ideas or simply don't feel that motivatied to produce a ton of new material at such a fast pace. I also bought every single album from the 200's decade (except 204, from which I purchased the tracks I liked), albeit using Musico, so it's not like I'm refusing to pay for my music. Still, I do think that the new direction of the series, at least based off of SEB 211's tracklist, isn't very favorable, and so I hope that it doesn't last for long, since I want to retain my interest in Super Eurobeat.

drnrg
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Post by drnrg » 30 Jan 2011, 06:59

thejti
You could say that all you want but in the end if the fans keep not liking what they do what's the point in them wanting to make the music? They have way more economical opportunities that some are actually taking advantage of. Eurobeat more and more is becoming an afterthought to a lot of the producers and writers.
I'm seriously starting to think that you really even wouldn't miss the music if they all got up and just stopped producing when I read comments like that :???:

...and just who are these fans that you are talking about? First off; if they think that way, I wouldn't even really concider them fans.

Too much negativity. If you don't wanna get SEB 211 ;just don't, but stop throwing dirt on it and let the rest of us enjoy it.

DarkSky
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Post by DarkSky » 30 Jan 2011, 10:39

drnrg wrote: Too much negativity. If you don't wanna get SEB 211 ;just don't, but stop throwing dirt on it and let the rest of us enjoy it.

Jay
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Post by Jay » 30 Jan 2011, 11:29

thejti wrote:You could say that all you want but in the end if the fans keep not liking what they do what's the point in them wanting to make the music? They have way more economical opportunities that some are actually taking advantage of. Eurobeat more and more is becoming an afterthought to a lot of the producers and writers.
I don't know about others here, but my critiques of certain songs are designed to help the producers create even better songs. For example, I made it very clear that I hated HRG for so many years, and I made various posts outlining what I thought HRG should do to improve on top of my sometimes harsh critiques of specific songs. And you know what? HRG have rectified nearly all of the issues I outlined. I don't know if my posts had something to do with the new direction they've taken, but I like to think they did since I haven't enjoyed HRG this much since they made their debut on the series. As you can see, not all of us want certain producers/writers to stop making eurobeat. If certain producers/writers wish to interpret our critiques that way, then I feel very sorry for them.

As for your comment about producers seeking other economic opportunities, well, isn't that common sense? I never expected a producer/writer to earn a complete living just from making eurobeat anyway, even in its heyday.

The major issue I have with your recent posts here Jorge is your sweeping generalisation of the entire eurobeat fanbase as cold, uncaring and unsupportive. There's no doubt in my mind that there are some among us who fit this description well, but I don't know how you can just sit there and generalise all of us in this manner. I've spent well over a thousand dollars on digital downloads and my (nearly complete) 140-210 SEB collection, and if the producers/writers truly believe that I'm not doing enough to support them, then that's not really compelling me to continue my support for the genre since my investments clearly aren't doing jack squat.

Reading back on your old posts Jorge, I've noticed that you've never really liked anybody criticising eurobeat. Perhaps that has a lot to do with the fact that you've kept in touch with a lot of the producers/writers on a personal level? I don't know. But you and whichever producers/writers you keep in touch with really need to stop alienating and blaming the fans for everything that's going wrong. I don't think you and your "contacts" realise that could potentially do even more harm than good in the long run.

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