Super Eurobeat 221 (News in page 1!)

Everything that is eurobeat can be discussed here.
zoupzuop2
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Post by zoupzuop2 » 27 Mar 2012, 05:04

drnrg wrote:Experimenting is o.k. on any level. Sure try new things. Just as long as Eurobeat does not start sounding like that cookie cutter dance pop/Dub Step/Electro Hop or whatever you wanna call it that LMFAO,David Guetta and all those other top 40 artists are making these days.

BTW, All those examples are great. I'll take some Transy Pamsy over the abomination of noise called LMFAO any day. :wink:
I certainly don't want Eurobeat sounding as generic as some Top 40 is, for sure! But even if it did begin taking on production elements of those genres/styles/songs, I don't think the Musicianship behind Eurobeat would die at all, as perhaps the fear may be. "Harder" instrumentation, for example, might make our beloved Aggressive style even more potent, as long as it keeps enough of its original elements intact!

And lest we forget, Trance isn't exactly a shining example of every song being a unique little snowflake (is THIS the part where the snare takes a super long time to build up to the climax?). Neither is Eurobeat— we have an entire thread dedicated to soundalikes for our genre alone! A Eurobeat fan has to be VERY careful of accusing other genres of being "cookie cutter", lest they be reminded VERY swiftly of the fact that our entire genre is largely dependent on INTRO RIFF V1 PRECHORUS CHORUS RIFF V2 PRECHORUS CHORUS RIFF OUTRO using Four-to-the-floor Dance Beat, Octaved Bass on 8ths, stabs on every other 8th, and synth brass (usually from a JD800), usually between 140 and 165 bpm, with lyrics usually consisting of Burning, Love, Car, Baby, Fire, Desire, Higher, Tonight, Sex, and Tokyo... amongst others.

What Eurobeat DOES have above other genres is the aforementioned musicianship. Even our most cookie-cutter songs USUALLY have a great deal more musical thought behind them than, yes, most Top-40 songs usually do (there are some exceptions on both ends, if one takes an objective stance). This is what has made Eurobeat so special amongst its peers— even for a popular genre (at one time), it still had a great deal of true content to it, instead of being entirely shiny fluff.

So, yes, Eurobeat DOES have something over Top-40 music, but an objective stance suggests that it isn't exactly by a landslide.
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Post by Vadim » 27 Mar 2012, 10:31

Experimenting is o.k. on any level. Sure try new things. Just as long as Eurobeat does not start sounding like that cookie cutter dance pop/Dub Step/Electro Hop or whatever you wanna call it that LMFAO,David Guetta and all those other top 40 artists are making these days.
Reality of life is that we can't have a cake and eat it too. You can't advocate the very things you are opposed to.

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Post by #Infinity » 28 Mar 2012, 02:16

If they actually do release a new SEB album after such a painfully long hiatus, it had better be good. My interest in eurobeat has dissolved so much since the start of 2012 that I've only been listening to early-mid 2000's eurobeat, mainly from SCP and Hi-NRG Attack, and only on limited occasions.

SCP's new songs do sounds pretty good, but if it's going to work out, the rest of the labels will need to live up to that level. Considering the direction certain ones have taken recently, I'm a little doubtful, but hopefully they can pull off something strong if SEB 221 ever comes out.
Last edited by #Infinity on 28 Mar 2012, 16:16, edited 1 time in total.
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Vadim
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Post by Vadim » 28 Mar 2012, 03:50

@Travis.

You probably know that Dubstep and american top-40 don't mean very much in Japan. I have nothing new to add except that it appears that traditional speedy eurobeat seems better to reflect all-time traditional japanese taste for imported eurobeat.

If you take amature made japanese eurobeat, you'll actually see a lot of attempts at traditional old school SEBlike sound.

I respect all kinds of music and all kinds of views.

Avex certainly has a full right to produce SEB how they believe it is best. We can share our opinions here, but it is Avex who will have a final say in this.

I am not trying to influence anyone here, just sharing my views and data. I already indicated here that I am not myself make attempts at talking to Avex over any SEB track selection related issue, be that in 2012 or even the future.
What Avex does with SEB is Avex business.

Everyone has a right to their private opinion and to make statements and posts on forums or FB that reflect their personal views.. Hopefully, myself included..

I can say that with 70% certainity that style/sound has nothing directly to do with delay in SEB. Clearly other issues are at work.

Hatsune Miku coming up instead of SEB is a result of experimentation. So people who desired vocaloid and experimentations can enjoy it as a proper cd.

There are no indications of any cancelation for SEB series. It is a delay.

zoupzuop2
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Post by zoupzuop2 » 28 Mar 2012, 05:30

Vadim in bold, with zz2's input wrote:@Travis.

You probably know that Dubstep and american top-40 don't mean very much in Japan. I have nothing new to add except that it appears that traditional speedy eurobeat seems better to reflect all-time traditional japanese taste for imported eurobeat.
Madonna has the best-selling album on Japanese iTunes at this very moment, LMFAO has the 5th best-selling album, David Guetta is in 6th, and Saxobeat's in 10th. Those aren't dubstep but they are "Top 40"— in fact, these are top 10! Mr. Saxobeat is also 6th in the Singles list. And that's just iTunes; LMFAO is also in the Top 10 of... well, ONE of the Oricon charts ( http://www.oricon.co.jp/rank/wa/w/2012-04-02/more/2/ ).

If you take amature made japanese eurobeat, you'll actually see a lot of attempts at traditional old school SEBlike sound.
This is mostly true. Japanese-produced Eurobeat does tend to sell well in that sound, to existing fans (not usually making new ones unless they're fans of the show/game/etc being remixed on that album).

I respect all kinds of music and all kinds of views.
This. THIS. THANK YOU for this. Instead of tearing someone's head off for liking what you may dislike, you can respect it. We need more of this.

Avex certainly has a full right to produce SEB how they believe it is best. We can share our opinions here, but it is Avex who will have a final say in this.
Of course. SEB is ultimately in the hands of Avex. Of course, SEB is not the ONLY source of Eurobeat around, but it is the biggest. Let's not forget our smaller forces!

I am not trying to influence anyone here, just sharing my views and data. I already indicated here that I am not myself make attempts at talking to Avex over any SEB track selection related issue, be that in 2012 or even the future.
What Avex does with SEB is Avex business.

Also agreed.

Everyone has a right to their private opinion and to make statements and posts on forums or FB that reflect their personal views.. Hopefully, myself included..
This is fair; however, if a statement is made that requires backing with facts, one should be ready to present those. Instead of "Pop Music is teh suxx", there should be more "Eurobeat attempts at incorporating elements of Pop music sold significantly less, as evidenced by [link]these sales figures[/link].

I can say that with 70% certainity that style/sound has nothing directly to do with delay in SEB. Clearly other issues are at work.
From what I know, you are correct.

Hatsune Miku coming up instead of SEB is a result of experimentation. So people who desired vocaloid and experimentations can enjoy it as a proper cd.
Eh... as much as I didn't hate the idea, they really did just release a rehash of an album that was already on NicoNicoDouga for a few years prior. The higher-ups at SEB, in my opinion, would do well to consider new content, specifically from more of the italian labels.

There are no indications of any cancelation for SEB series. It is a delay.
A lot's changed in the decade and a half I've been here.
Full-time eurobeat producer, full-time musician, part-time Vtuber. #JessaIsReal2021
Join me on an Odyssey.

Vadim
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Post by Vadim » 29 Mar 2012, 17:12

Madonna has the best-selling album on Japanese iTunes at this very moment, LMFAO has the 5th best-selling album, David Guetta is in 6th, and Saxobeat's in 10th. Those aren't dubstep but they are "Top 40"— in fact, these are top 10! Mr. Saxobeat is also 6th in the Singles list. And that's just iTunes; LMFAO is also in the Top 10 of... well, ONE of the Oricon charts ( http://www.oricon.co.jp/rank/wa/w/2012-04-02/more/2/ ).
You really took your time to dig up that stuff..my compliments..I was never any good with Japanese iTunes statistics..fortunate for me I never claimed that they weren't in Oricon or iTunes charts.. :D ..well...my point here is that they (american top 40) don't own Japan the way they do US or even Western Europe. You really just have this sort of stuff shoved down your throat totally in USA. No alternatives...

As contrast to that, Japan cultivates her own musical culture, while still obviously importing the fast food american junk. Yes, you have american commercial music in some high positions in Japan, but it still the japanese artists and music that continues to dominate it.

Which leads me to state that the influence of american top 40 is much lower
in Japan, which allowes Japan to cultivate music styles which would never have half a chance in USA in modern times. Eurobeat is such an example.
I respect all kinds of music and all kinds of views.
We need more of this
..it should run both ways...
This is fair; however, if a statement is made that requires backing with facts, one should be ready to present those. Instead of "Pop Music is teh suxx", there should be more "Eurobeat attempts at incorporating elements of Pop music sold significantly less, as evidenced by [link]these sales figures[/link].
If you hint at my statements, then I can back them up 100%.

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Post by zoupzuop2 » 30 Mar 2012, 00:49

[ORIGINAL POST REMOVED]

All I can say is, America is not the only country that can produce crappy music, and I'm extremely frustrated that the sentiment is so inherent in this forum. I can't even make a post on this forum without seeing my entire country's musical output bashed, when I personally know so many hard-working producers and composers in this country, if not within my own town.
A lot's changed in the decade and a half I've been here.
Full-time eurobeat producer, full-time musician, part-time Vtuber. #JessaIsReal2021
Join me on an Odyssey.

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Post by para_rigby » 30 Mar 2012, 02:46

zoupzuop2 wrote:[ORIGINAL POST REMOVED]

All I can say is, America is not the only country that can produce crappy music, and I'm extremely frustrated that the sentiment is so inherent in this forum. I can't even make a post on this forum without seeing my entire country's musical output bashed, when I personally know so many hard-working producers and composers in this country, if not within my own town.
Amen! Apparently, our crappy American music has no far reaching effect around the world...haha. I personally get sick of hearing two things on this forum which have been said:

1. Keeping eurobeat pure and at its roots...no non-eurobeat influences in "my music", they say. Funny popular Jager and Pamsy have been with their non-traditional sounds.

2. How manufactured pop music is. Err. Wait. Isn't eurobeat formulaic? Isn't it manufactured in its own right? It's as close to the production of said "crappy pop/dance" music as any other genre. The only genre I don't feel is manufactured (in my opinion) is the singer/songwriter/folksy music.

Vadim
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Post by Vadim » 30 Mar 2012, 02:54

zoupzuop2 wrote:[ORIGINAL POST REMOVED]

All I can say is, America is not the only country that can produce crappy music, and I'm extremely frustrated that the sentiment is so inherent in this forum. I can't even make a post on this forum without seeing my entire country's musical output bashed, when I personally know so many hard-working producers and composers in this country, if not within my own town.
I agree, in fact I should mention that I am fully unable to adide anything of pop music that was produced in my own country of origin.
...the problem is that all those hard working and talented people you mentioned, and many thousands of them, just have no chance to break through. And the reason for that is POP MONOPOLIES. I am really only opposed to a manufactured pop which is created in USA by pumping huge capitals into few chosen artists and using a concept of transnational corporations to impose those few chosen artists on the rest of the planet.

I have in fact a great admiration towards real american artists who work hard playing live shows and never give up despite the fact that the road up for them is barred by monopolies.

You are also always welcome to say to me anything you want by private communication since we can't use public space for everything..

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Post by Vadim » 30 Mar 2012, 03:06

1. Keeping eurobeat pure and at its roots...no non-eurobeat influences in "my music", they say. Funny popular Jager and Pamsy have been with their non-traditional sounds.
You should remember that I stated many times that Pamsy style is a desirable and successfull one. Basically, all SEB 180-s style is highly desirable.
Jager himself is a very talented singer, he did really phenomenal music with Blast.
2. How manufactured pop music is. Err. Wait. Isn't eurobeat formulaic? Isn't it manufactured in its own right? It's as close to the production of said "crappy pop/dance" music as any other genre. The only genre I don't feel is manufactured (in my opinion) is the singer/songwriter/folksy music.
Eurobeat is created in a studio, true, but it is a low budget adaptation to creating products for a single record company for sales in a single nation.
It has nothing in common with POP monopolies which are backed by immense capital investments and really manufacture their artists out of nothing.

Eurobeat artists may be session singers but we all know that they are in their lives very hard working musicians who perform amazingly live and are real musicians.

Vadim
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Post by Vadim » 30 Mar 2012, 03:57

I'll give a brief answer in regards to a question about non-eurobeat influences..

Yes, I do personally preffer a very pure eurobeat of pre-SEB 100 era. But I am not at all proposing that old eurobeat style of pre SEB 100 must come back.

Instead I support the desire by most of eurobeat listeners to have a modern eurobeat but still with a strong and true eurobeat identity based on the general guidelines of a pure form of this style.

SEB 170-180-s are a perfect example of this modern but still true eurobeat style.

drnrg
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Post by drnrg » 30 Mar 2012, 05:51

zoupzuop2
All I can say is, America is not the only country that can produce crappy music, and I'm extremely frustrated that the sentiment is so inherent in this forum. I can't even make a post on this forum without seeing my entire country's musical output bashed, when I personally know so many hard-working producers and composers in this country, if not within my own town.
Sorry zoupzoup, but this is true, but I directed to the music comming out nowadays. I mean, what's that fascination of every song wanting to sound alike?

Don't get me wrong, there are a few great All American pop songs on the top 40 as we speak from Train, Gavin Degraw, Daughtry, Kelly Clarkson, hell, I even like Madonna's new song and Nickelback(though they are canadian). Unfortunately they are numbered and pushed to the sidelines by that electro Hip Hop, rap or dance style is oozing all over the top 40 and it makes the U.S. look like they can't produce anthing else. And you have to admit ,that that particular style lacks any sort of effort or essence. You realize that 10-20 years from now, the memorable songs for American adults will be from the likes of Ke$ha, LMFAO and Pitbull. I don't know where the industry went wrong, but that's just sad.

I'll always have deep respect for the 100% American bands of the past. The Cars, Aerosmith, Kiss, Journey,Boston,Green Day, Stone Temple Pilots. Many of those being my favourites and the ones I grew up with. My generation had its share of M.C. Hammer's and Vanilla Ice's, but thank goodness, those songs are almost totaly forgotten now.

Wataru Akiyama
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Post by Wataru Akiyama » 02 Apr 2012, 06:59

drnrg wrote: Don't get me wrong, there are a few great All American pop songs on the top 40 as we speak from Train, Gavin Degraw, Daughtry, Kelly Clarkson, hell, I even like Madonna's new song and Nickelback(though they are canadian). Unfortunately they are numbered and pushed to the sidelines by that electro Hip Hop, rap or dance style is oozing all over the top 40 and it makes the U.S. look like they can't produce anthing else. And you have to admit ,that that particular style lacks any sort of effort or essence. You realize that 10-20 years from now, the memorable songs for American adults will be from the likes of Ke$ha, LMFAO and Pitbull. I don't know where the industry went wrong, but that's just sad.
Dang bro you don't like Kid Cudi, GUCCI MANE, and Timbaland? Daaaaaaaang!


I don't listen to them either, it's cool. :D
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drnrg
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Post by drnrg » 02 Apr 2012, 10:07

Wataru
AkiyamaDang bro you don't like Kid Cudi, GUCCI MANE, and Timbaland? Daaaaaaaang!
I know exactly who they are and the answer is no. I remeber a few years back Timbaland produced a Duran Duran cd and pretty much ruined it. Thank goodness Duran Duran dicede to release another albume last year Full of retro 80s sounding style with the help of Mark Ronson,reminding us of how stellar a band they really are.

Bottom line...If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Eurobeat isn't broke

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Post by Bonkers » 04 Apr 2012, 01:12

My issue with American music is that it is so contradictory. In the 90s, America tried its hardest to block out anything electronic dance related on the air waves while hip hop, rap, boy bands/pop and country music dominated. Now, all you hear is the crappy dance pop music loaded with electro house elements, and everyone thinks its the highest quality of dance music. The only decent song I have heard come out of this craze is The Time(dirty bit). The only dance music sold in department stores and malls are those crappy Thrive CDs, or those Ultra CDs, which contain remixes of American pop tracks. You don't see any uk hard house, happy hardcore, or eurobeat. The only way for an American dance music artist to get his or her music out is to send it to a uk label.

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