To Long Time Listeners...

Everything that is eurobeat can be discussed here.
para_rigby
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To Long Time Listeners...

Post by para_rigby » 06 Jul 2014, 16:14

I was talking to Bonkers on FB recently and we discussed the changes in the sounds of eurobeat. So I've been listening to the series since the late 140s, early 150s and there is, IMO, a markedly different sound that feels much heavier and more serious, especially in the 220s. Seems that songs are being more this way. Maybe it's the loss of more cheery, sugary songs from artists like Lolita, Kiki and Co., etc. I'm probably the one on here with the least amount of musical terminology knowledge, but I can feel a slow, but more progressive sound that has become more dramatic and less lighthearted over the years.

I guess I'm asking if you like how the sounds of eurobeat have evolved over the years or not. I'm not saying that I don't like the direction of sounds, but just that it definitely seems different compared to 10 years ago.

Thoughts?

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Post by WinterdrivE » 06 Jul 2014, 18:58

The first eurobeat album I heard was from 1999, so I'm mostly partial to eurobeat from around that same time (SEB 100 or so)

tl;dr, older eurobeat I feel had more of a combination of acoustic elements and electronic elements and was simpler, but now its, like, full-on electronic and a lot more of it at one time.

Full version:
I feel like SEB 140-150 is when eurobeat really started making the shift towards, well, what it is today. The biggest thing I've noticed is that eurobeat as a whole has gotten a lot busier and more electronic. I think SCP is, like, the prime example of this. Their earlier productions were were more on the simple side, as far as the number of parts that were flying around (as most others' were as well) but now they have a lot more embellishment. And I feel like the other labels have gone this direction as well, but SCP is one of the more extreme examples. So overall I feel like eurobeat's gotten a lot more complex as of late.

Also, I found that older eurobeat had a marked use of strings/string pads that's much more rarely present.

Another big that's contributed to the more electronic sound of modern eurobeat I feel is the heavier use of electronic filters and effects. (again, SCP is a pretty god example of this)

I definitely agree with the statement that eurobeat's gotten more serious lately. I miss those old Kiki & Fancy/Kiki & Kika songs and the other nonsensical tunes. SCP's kinda held on to a thread of that spirit in the form of songs like Hello Kitty & Wacky Wacky O (which I'm addicted to) but overall that sense of fun and nonsense has all but faded away.

Up until SEB 220 came out, I wasn't too happy with the direction eurobeat was going. I felt like it was starting to sound overproduced in such a way that it lost its charm to me. It felt way too serious for me. I also wasn't particularly happy about the general downward trend of tempos. I want my eurobeat fast, dammit. If I don't feel like a seizure is imminent, there's a problem. Because of this, 200-210 went completely unnoticed by me, I only have a few from 211-220, and while I have all of 191-196, I really only got them for a few specific songs.

221 and onward, however, I feel like eurobeat has lightened up a little bit, and well, its gotten faster again which is always good. Its definitely still more serious, but its more likable to me. idk, its hard to explain

Bonkers
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Post by Bonkers » 06 Jul 2014, 19:33

You look at the Euromach thru SEB 2002 days, and you see such a heavy influence of cheese, speed, & power. Now, everything is about sounding as acceptable to the cash audience as possible, which happens across the board for all dance music eventually. There comes a point when artists lose sight in imagination & experimenting with production due to the fact they might lose a chance for exposure, so they continue to produce tracks in a "safe realm".

I feel we are currently on the end point of this "safe realm". We're still getting a flood of "Let's keep it safe!" tracks, but then we have a more wider appearance of power tracks like "One Love One Love", "Hey You!", "Wilder Faster Louder", "Make Me Wonder", "Dancing Out of Danger", "Walking Alone In London", than we did in the 211-219 era. All we need now is for the cheese to come back.

Mindsweeper
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Post by Mindsweeper » 07 Jul 2014, 02:32

I just got back from a four day convention so I'm too tired to type out a real big response, so to make a long story (too?) short:

Eurobeat seems to me like it's getting trancier and poppier, and less funky and/or 80s influenced. I'm not super thrilled about it.

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Post by Bonkers » 07 Jul 2014, 02:47

Mindsweeper wrote:
Eurobeat seems to me like it's getting trancier and poppier, and less funky and/or 80s influenced. I'm not super thrilled about it.
Same.

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Post by KoolKool » 07 Jul 2014, 10:35

sounds change or not isn't a matter to me

the only things i care is melody and quality of vocal,lyrics
a track with good melody,good vocal is a good track

heavy drum,trancy bassline...or any strange,new sounds...well,music is about creativity or it will die...
one thing that never change i think is eurobeat brass sound,without it -> no eurobeat feeling,not a eurobeat track..if they keep this sound for eurobeat -> they are making eurobeat,yes,it's eurobeat music :)

i would love to see a eurobeat with hardcore influence..and maybe with rap blend in..ha ha

it is possible to recreate old style eurobeat,80s 90s..yes,it's possible with music production nowadays...it's just those producers don't want to that,maybe they feel too tired,bored with oldstyle,they want to do something new, if you want old style,you can count on new eurobeat artist/producers generation,or..it's you,make your own eurobeat, and dream to sign a place to SEB :)

talk about SEB series...it seem the genre go downfall and become more and more chessy

now,i can only find 2-3 or at least 1 tracks worth to listening,and i press the skip button too often

....oh come on! sing something new,too much love and fire already!
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Post by drnrg » 07 Jul 2014, 13:00

KoolKool
i would love to see a eurobeat with hardcore influence..and maybe with rap blend in..ha ha
No to the first part of your statement. As to your second idea;There have been some Eurobeat with rapping in it. Of course, its done Eurobeat style and sounds pretty cool. HRG Attack did a few.

I'm happy with Eurobeat the way it is now. It hasn't veered away from it's structure to the point where you would call it something elese. that would be a dark day for the genre.

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Post by Darkholme » 07 Jul 2014, 15:48

drnrg wrote:KoolKool
i would love to see a eurobeat with hardcore influence..and maybe with rap blend in..ha ha
There have been some Eurobeat with rapping in it. Of course, its done Eurobeat style and sounds pretty cool.
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I definitely prefer the older, simpler sound of eurobeat. I like how "organic" is sounds despite being synthesized. The slower tempo also allows me to really take in and feel the melodies and rhythms.
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Post by #Infinity » 07 Jul 2014, 16:47

The genre's evolution varies from label to label, but I feel like for the most part, there's been little to no sound development since about the late 2000's. Aside from its partial focus on different artists, SCP's general style has been pretty much unchanged from 2008 on. The same applies to Hi-NRG Attack, Delta (Capaldi), Saifam, and Dima. A-Beat C/Sunfire and GGM have played around a little bit, due to re-establishments within the label, but otherwise, there hasn't been a whole lot of change, per se. Hi-NRG Attack experimented with a lot of different genres around 2010 and 2011 (the plethora of neo-italo productions, the live rock hybrids from the Super-Duper Eurobeat albums, and the new wave revival Back Into the 80's), but they've quickly abandoned these possible shifts in direction in favor of the status quo. About the only label that's made real progress over the past several years is SinclaireStyle, which has slowly adopted a faster and more aggressive style - in the words of Loving Eurobeat, "classic, but at the same time, progressive."

If anything, I feel like the eurobeat sound has gotten weaker as a whole since the latter half of the 00's. I think just about every label hit its peak around the 160's or 170's decades and have gotten drier and drier since then. Songs from this period by Saifam, Delta, SCP, and HRG were a lot bassier, less hollow, and had jucier percussoin. It made for a more generally focused sound and was often the reason why they produced so many classics during that time. Nothing made in recent years can match the thumping excitement of Gun Boy, the sharp richness of Shock Out, or the rumbling exuberance of Moo Moo Dollars. Tracks like Hotblade's Showdown, Mark Farina's Last of Eurobeat, and Billy the Butcher's Too Tan, while still pretty memorable, leave none of the same impact as their predecessors of 8-ish years. To be fair, Delta continues to sound strong today, but I do miss Capaldi's original, more vibrant style, which made his 170's productions like Popcorns & Sex and Born to Love You so fun.
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Post by Bonkers » 07 Jul 2014, 18:13

#Infinity wrote: If anything, I feel like the eurobeat sound has gotten weaker as a whole since the latter half of the 00's. I think just about every label hit its peak around the 160's or 170's decades and have gotten drier and drier since then.
Besides the Best of 2000/2001, Best of 2006 & 2007 have to by my top fav. "Best of..." non-stops of the later half the 2000s (and CD 1 of Best of 2005/2009). The tracks were so....thumping on the 2006/2007 mixes (both CDs).

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Post by Bonkers » 07 Jul 2014, 18:54

KoolKool wrote:
i would love to see a eurobeat with hardcore influence..

....oh come on! sing something new,too much love and fire already!
I would like to see Eurobeat actually have a harder beat to it. SCP has been good about actually letting you know there is bass in the track (but that goes for all labels here lately, but SCP seems to have been pushing that). That's one downfall to 90s Eurobeat: the lack of a strong bass/drumbeat.

Tracks like...Music for Hire, Norma Sheffield's "Dream Away", and Annerly Goordon's "On My Own 2006" have a good driving drumbeat that I wish would have caught on. AbeatC did good during 2004 with their productions having a profound drumbeat.

I think with the current sound of Eurobeat, if it were to be made at Hardcore tempo (170-175 bpm), it would really sound like UK Hardcore circa 2004-2009.

oooooooo, What if Eurobeat had the old Rotterdam Hardcore kick drum!
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Post by Mindsweeper » 07 Jul 2014, 21:38

^ I've thought about that myself (gabberesque distorted kicks in eurobeat) but I don't think it would work well because eurobeat is so dense with sounds. That kind of kick takes up lots of space and would end up competing with everything else. Also eurobeat generally has staccato kicks and hats which help make it sound fast and frantic, hardcore kicks work best legato.

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Post by the_ditz » 07 Jul 2014, 22:03

I hate that type of kick drum - it always has a bass tone to it that ends up taking over the tone of the melodies behind it I think.

Personally, I'm happy with the way that Eurobeat has continually evolved. If I was critical, I'd say that Saifam/Asia had their peak around 2006/2007 - since then, their focus has shifted away from Eurobeat stylings and they've lost the spark that Mauro Farina used to bring.

drnrg - look away now, but I don't miss Time/Eurogrooves. They were always very "of their time" in having a richer, old-school timbre, and it never sat well for me around the 170's with all the remakes, so it was perhaps time to call it a day.

Dima, to be honest, probably had his peak during the LED/Vibration days. He now has far more control over his own compositions now running his own label, but over the last couple of years he has quickly started to burn out and he needs to go back to the drawing and perhaps have another reinvention of sound.

I'm happy with where Delta has come, although personally the Eurobeat Masters 17-21 releases highlighted the pinnacle of their song-writing and productions. Super Rider is still probably my favourite male Eurobeat track ever, and that's a big thing coming from a firm SCP fan ;)

Hi-NRG Attack will never change. I adored their dabble with Italo sounds around the 190's/200's, but it seems that those days are gone sadly. They need to get some better vocalists on board if they are to continue to be relevant and avoid slipping back into the dark days of the 170's.

A-Beat C reached their peak around the same time as Asia, just before Sandro Oliva started up GGM. Since they morphed into SunFire, their sound is probably the only one that I really despair over (see my review of 229 for more details). The percussion is too cheap, the synths are too amateur - I mourn the loss of A-Beat C above all else.

SinclaireStyle are at their pinnacle right about now and have been riding high for the past couple of years. For me "Toy For Love" was a massive turning point for them - they have found a perfect balance of the old style synths with the newer, faster beats and energy. And the melodies and vocals are stronger than ever.

And then the pinnacle of all - SCP. The most progressive and continually evolving label that is never afraid to embrace change form the trends for other labels to follow. Personally, I have adored SCP songs from every single SEB decade as they all brought something new, exciting and fresh to the party. And their 3 stunning entries on 229 - AMAZING!!!

So that's where I stand on each label - can't wait to see what the 230 decade brings us :)

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Post by Bonkers » 08 Jul 2014, 00:27

Mindsweeper wrote:^ I've thought about that myself (gabberesque distorted kicks in eurobeat) but I don't think it would work well...
You are absolutely right. Though, it still wouldn't hurt to carry on that drumbeat from "On My Own 2006" :P

@the_ditz: That's one reason why Happy Hardcore, like Eurobeat, is either a genre you just love or...well, can't stand, lol. There really isn't much middle ground in both genres, which is what makes them so unique.

I'm excited for the 230 decade. :evil:

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Post by Lebon14 » 08 Jul 2014, 02:51

You have done a good, but personal, observation para_rigby. However, I do not mourn that kind of style because, at least the very pure style of kiki & kika/kiki & fancy, is very hit and miss with me. Songs like "Tuttifrutti Lollipop" and etc. Some of them just are plain annoying. Recently, we had the release Wacky Wacky O. I consider "Tonight In Paradise" by Belight (again, SCP LOL) to be quite the happy-go-lucky style you are talking about. A lot of Hi-NRG Attack's material seem to be very carefree type of songs too. Too Tan and Kool Kitten, anybody?

But yes, there are more "serious" songs. Kaioh tracks this gen such as "Sunlight" sounds more serious.

But enough of the present. I started to actively listen to SEB at the end of the 160s (SEB168, I believe). To be honest, at that time, there wasn't that much I was interessed in. SEB172 was pretty much THE album that made me stuck with Eurobeat. Looking at my CD, there were quite a bit of serious/moody songs on that compilation. Once Upon A Time / Pamsy, Mad Desire / Stephy Martini, Dark And Bright / Nando, Every Night / Paul Harris, Black Devil / Ray Sun, Love Shining / Kasanova... I think that it's more of the melodies used that makes it sound more serious now-a-days. I say that every albums brought his share of serious/moody tracks and brighter/energetic ones. Even today, the ratio is still pretty darn good.

On another note, about the pinnacles of each labels...

A-Beat-C: I never been a very big fan of A-Beat-C. Some people here might know that. Of course, they had tracks I liked but, for the most part, they were meh. However, I understand how some might feel bad on how ABC is no more. The label did bring a LOT of hits. Might not be my hits but I know to recognize a hit when it's a hit. 2005 through 2007 might be the ABC years. Some may say mid-1990s though, for the slower tracks or tracks like "Tora Tora Tora" and etc.

Sunfire: Yes. Their sound is very cheap. Dave did make quite a bit of good tracks here and there though but... it does feel empty. Pinnacle: definitely to come. I hope.

SinclaireStyle: I agree that the label is currently in it best years since 2008. My first "OMG" track was the King And Queen remake by Tora. Godly. I dubbed "Toy For Love" the "SO HAPPY" song. Still a pleasure to listen to. However, in the recent months, I have to say that Sinclaire is really on a roll! The 221-229 era was really good for him. Pinnacle: 2013-present

Delta: Since the departure of Newfield, the label has been on a decline. It sounds very generic. So, the highlights of Delta would probably be something like between 2000 and 2009. However, I cannot dismiss the time when Sinclaire was still under Delta because a crapload of CLASSICS were born during that time.

SCP: It started so-so but as the time went on, just holy crap. From 2006 onward... they just keep improving. Pinccale: 2006-present /totallynotafanboy

Hi-NRG Attack: Hard to say... NRG had a lot of good tracks here and there but it's hard for me to pinpoint a year or a range of years where they were good. Probably pre-2006. Oh yeah, definitely. Today, it's very hit and miss but they definitely had they share of hits recently. And a new vocalist/composer on board. Also, I hated the 210s with Hi-NRG Attack. I hated almost all slow Italo-Disco tracks.

Dima: When Dima joined SEB, he was amazing. The 200s rolled in and... the more it went... the more bland it got. I really wish Dima could make tracks such Fever Of Love, Save A Prayer, Dream, etc again. They had good tracks during the 220s but clearly not as much as before that. Pinnacle: 2008-2009.

Asia/BBB: This label... I just wish pre-2007 was here again because teh tracks made during those two years were fucking amazing. Today, it's almost irrevelant. Like 2 new male tracks for... a crapload of female tracks.

Go Go's Music: With the departure of Sandro Oliva (At least I consider it gone), Go Go's is pretty much a weaker copy of SCP. Is it a bad thing? Definitely not but that means that they doesn't have their own sound anymore. Mega NRG Man, Lolita and other loved alias have been MIA since 218. Probably when Oliva quitted. The pinnacle was 2009. Holy shit that year was awesome in the Go Go's catalog.
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