Super Eurobeat 241

Everything that is eurobeat can be discussed here.
Anthony McBazooka
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Post by Anthony McBazooka » 22 Oct 2016, 13:52

Lebon14 wrote:I was about to write a huge wall-of-text about the discussion but I won't comment finally. I'm just sick of it.

Just know this though: the biggest consummer of entertainment (willing to pay) are those that are also pirate a lot. The opposite is also true. Those that aren't willing to pay aren't huge entertainment consumer (most likely OK with what they hear at the radio or watch on TV).

Avex is the biggest fault here but the labels aren't guilty-free either. If they would upload their own tracks on YT and moneytize them (or Avex for that matter), YT would be a non-issue. But they don't do anything... Or Avex stops them to do just that.
Also there are some developments no one simply can't stop. I can't hear that whining from anyone about pirated music anymore. The simple idea of getting rich just by owning the rights of a song is shit in the first place. If you want to make money from music than work for it, continuously. This means play your music live. If you only compose and don't want to perform by yourself, get your composition paid by those who play it and go on.
For a long time, the music business was running as a kind of income-without-work, so people have been lazy for a long time. Now things have changed and people still want to defend their laziness. Why doesn't anybody complain about musicians who play gigs without being paid? Simply because in capitalism property is all and labour is nothing. But do we really have to repeat that bullshit?
Music piracy isn't the reason Eurobeat isn't selling anymore. It's simply because people lost interest in Eurobeat and that's it. But as long as the series is continued and as there are some passionate independent artists, there will still be new Eurobeat around, so what …
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dr.gabriel
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Post by dr.gabriel » 22 Oct 2016, 15:52

Anthony McBazooka wrote:
Lebon14 wrote:I was about to write a huge wall-of-text about the discussion but I won't comment finally. I'm just sick of it.

Just know this though: the biggest consummer of entertainment (willing to pay) are those that are also pirate a lot. The opposite is also true. Those that aren't willing to pay aren't huge entertainment consumer (most likely OK with what they hear at the radio or watch on TV).

Avex is the biggest fault here but the labels aren't guilty-free either. If they would upload their own tracks on YT and moneytize them (or Avex for that matter), YT would be a non-issue. But they don't do anything... Or Avex stops them to do just that.
It's simply because people lost interest in Eurobeat and that's it. …
So it's safe to take a file that you have not realized, and give it to everyone? In my country this is called theft! You spoke of shit ... shit is stealing others! Still, you're a writer? A musician? Please, tell us how you live music and where do you get all this experience in establishing that those who produce music without going around playing is lazy! Allow one last question? SEB ... you download from the Internet or purchases? I produce and I do not like those who steal my job! I spend my time in the studio recording musicians and singers ... so? I have to endure that people put my work online? Please... be serious

Crockett
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Post by Crockett » 22 Oct 2016, 17:26

Anthony McBazooka wrote:I can't hear that whining from anyone about pirated music anymore. The simple idea of getting rich just by owning the rights of a song is shit in the first place. If you want to make money from music than work for it, continuously. This means play your music live.
Freely available YouTube links of brand new music is pure loss. Expectation of earnings from own new music it's not "idea of getting rich just by owning the rights", but the beginning of normal sale of a new product, trying is it good for a market. The popularity and possible later concerts, playing these brand new songs won't be possible, if primary product, song, album, compilation won't reach profits and won't get applause.

Noone is arguing here, we're discussing, but voices of fans, not only here, sound like a kind of pretensions, that the subject of stealing music is so unpleasant, in the other hand they try to defend on multiple ways how to satisfy the listeners, which deliberately don't pay.

Eurobeat is mostly studio music, projects, the genre has a lot of talented persons, they are educated composers, producers, sound engineers, but NOT STAGE ARTISTS.

That's not easy occupation for all, to perform live, so what are we talking about?

Kick me if I repeat, that the real serious Eurobeat live shows were in fact only in 90's. In Japan and some current international fans know very well, that ONLY the three first record companies from Italy, creating music for Avex Trax had REAL STAGE ARTISTS.

I don't understand Anthony McBazooka. I like his Eurobeat, and I won't cast in doubt his skills.

But some of people, who I can recognize on forum or on Facebook, who 20 years ago played toys in the sandbox (I'm quite young too), are today ready to contest the opinion of musician, who 20 and also 25 years ago was in Italo - Eurobeat business at a professional level.

Theft will be always theft and there are no alternatives to make happy listeners, which never won't pay, the more to blame the artists themselves.
Last edited by Crockett on 22 Oct 2016, 20:27, edited 2 times in total.

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Lebon14
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Post by Lebon14 » 22 Oct 2016, 17:35

Thief. Definition:
the act of stealing; the wrongful taking and carrying away of the personal goods or property of another
the act of taking something that belongs to someone else and keeping it
Reading between the lines, this is for physical items and, AFAIK, mp3 is a digital file, non-tangible. So, you still have your music well and safe within your computer and your SEB copy Avex sent you, safe within your collection. Nobody stole anything. But I see you coming with a counter-argument already. They are COPIES. If it weren't for those COPIES available online, I WOULD NOT be here today listening to Eurobeat. Or buying SEB comps.

Stealing your job? Please... Nobody stole your studio, equipment or money. Regardless of the number of CDs sold in Japan, your salary will remain about the same because the percentage of money you get from a CD is so small that you better say you don't have anything from it. "Oh then Avex will reduce our pay". I don't think piracy would have mattered: your salary is still at the mercy of Avex.

With all due respect Roberto, Anthony is right. Today, producers just sit there and wait for the cash to come in. AFAIK, italian labels barely advertise their work. Then, once it's out, they expect everybody to import a CD from Japan that cost ~40$CAD (Yes, that's what it cost me to actually import the CD - our dollar is MUCH weaker than the Euro). And then, you cry that nobody buys it. I don't think you have to search very far where's the issue. And this same issue is why piracy is SO prominent. And, no, the "issue" is not piracy.

You want me to tell it out loud? OK.
ZERO Marketing. Physical content is REGION LOCKED and importing is REQUIRED. UNAVAILABLE for streaming outside of Japan. Digital distribution LOCKED to Japan. Product AIMED at JAPANESE and for Japanese ONLY.

And then you STILL wonder why the fuck it only sells 500-700 copies every 2 months? Why you don't have a cent in your pocket? You still live in the 80's and that's the issue. Sitting on your laurels thinking that your fans will do the marketing job and expect of them to import a CD that they might not wish to get.

Avex = Dropped the ball pretty fucking hard through the years, only post the teaser a few days in advance and AIMED at Japanese. Cherry (pun not intended) on sundae, they don't allow comments on their videos. That just show that they don't wanna hear you shit on 'em coz they can't take opinions for shit. ON TOP OF EVERYTHING, they hold the italian labels with a leash around their neck.
Sunfire = ZERO marketing
Delta = ZERO marketing
Asia/3B/Speed Records = ZERO marketing
SCP = RARE marketing, but only for their EuroKudos series.
Go Go's Music = ZERO marketing
SinclaireStyle = Decent marketing. The only ones...
Hi-NRG Attack = RARE marketing... Malviccino only mention their new Hi-NRG tracks only when a new release is coming. Barely post their own release.
Dima = Use to market their own release but once Sjoeerd quit, there's ZERO marketing.

And then, you don't even release your own material to digital outlet or to streaming services. SCP only do it after a while, SinclaireStyle used to do it... but not anymore. Dima released older and some unreleased stuff but then stopped. Asia is usually releasing their song once they are done but suddenly stopped recently. Go Go's Music and Sunfire... nothing at all. Hi-NRG Attack, they only release stuff Avex rejected. However, their older material is pretty available though.

De Jorrio's recent gigs in Japan are the only recent gigs related to euro...

The price for the CDs, even though it used to be much worse before SEB 187, is still pretty damn expensive. If only SEB was sold at doujin prices ie. ~1590yen, it would help it.

And then, with all that, you wonder why it doesn't sell, that piracy is rampant and you don't have money. If you are still clueless after this post, I feel sorry for you.
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dr.gabriel
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Post by dr.gabriel » 22 Oct 2016, 18:12

Lebon14 wrote:Thief. Definition:
the act of stealing; the wrongful taking and carrying away of the personal goods or property of another
the act of taking something that belongs to someone else and keeping it
Reading between the lines, this is for physical items and, AFAIK, mp3 is a digital file, non-tangible. So, you still have your music well and safe within your computer and your SEB copy Avex sent you, safe within your collection. Nobody stole anything. But I see you coming with a counter-argument already. They are COPIES. If it weren't for those COPIES available online, I WOULD NOT be here today listening to Eurobeat. Or buying SEB comps.

Stealing your job? Please... Nobody stole your studio, equipment or money. Regardless of the number of CDs sold in Japan, your salary will remain about the same because the percentage of money you get from a CD is so small that you better say you don't have anything from it. "Oh then Avex will reduce our pay". I don't think piracy would have mattered: your salary is still at the mercy of Avex.

With all due respect Roberto, Anthony is right. Today, producers just sit there and wait for the cash to come in. AFAIK, italian labels barely advertise their work. Then, once it's out, they expect everybody to import a CD from Japan that cost ~40$CAD (Yes, that's what it cost me to actually import the CD - our dollar is MUCH weaker than the Euro). And then, you cry that nobody buys it. I don't think you have to search very far where's the issue. And this same issue is why piracy is SO prominent. And, no, the "issue" is not piracy.

You want me to tell it out loud? OK.
ZERO Marketing. Physical content is REGION LOCKED and importing is REQUIRED. UNAVAILABLE for streaming outside of Japan. Digital distribution LOCKED to Japan. Product AIMED at JAPANESE and for Japanese ONLY.

And then you STILL wonder why the fuck it only sells 500-700 copies every 2 months? Why you don't have a cent in your pocket? You still live in the 80's and that's the issue. Sitting on your laurels thinking that your fans will do the marketing job and expect of them to import a CD that they might not wish to get.

Avex = Dropped the ball pretty fucking hard through the years, only post the teaser a few days in advance and AIMED at Japanese. Cherry (pun not intended) on sundae, they don't allow comments on their videos. That just show that they don't wanna hear you shit on 'em coz they can't take opinions for shit. ON TOP OF EVERYTHING, they hold the italian labels with a leash around their neck.
Sunfire = ZERO marketing
Delta = ZERO marketing
Asia/3B/Speed Records = ZERO marketing
SCP = RARE marketing, but only for their EuroKudos series.
Go Go's Music = ZERO marketing
SinclaireStyle = Decent marketing. The only ones...
Hi-NRG Attack = RARE marketing... Malviccino only mention their new Hi-NRG tracks only when a new release is coming. Barely post their own release.
Dima = Use to market their own release but once Sjoeerd quit, there's ZERO marketing.

And then, you don't even release your own material to digital outlet or to streaming services. SCP only do it after a while, SinclaireStyle used to do it... but not anymore. Dima released older and some unreleased stuff but then stopped. Asia is usually releasing their song once they are done but suddenly stopped recently. Go Go's Music and Sunfire... nothing at all. Hi-NRG Attack, they only release stuff Avex rejected. However, their older material is pretty available though.

De Jorrio's recent gigs in Japan are the only recent gigs related to euro...

The price for the CDs, even though it used to be much worse before SEB 187, is still pretty damn expensive. If only SEB was sold at doujin prices ie. ~1590yen, it would help it.

And then, with all that, you wonder why it doesn't sell, that piracy is rampant and you don't have money. If you are still clueless after this post, I feel sorry for you.
what you call .. Digital mp3 files, it is actually a product! And like all products must be sold! I am not salaried by AVEX. Gain if the song sells! Did you understand? I want to do my job and reap the benefits, and do not want to thank those who hurt my income!

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Lebon14
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Post by Lebon14 » 22 Oct 2016, 18:18

dr.gabriel wrote:what you call .. Digital mp3 files, it is actually a product! And like all products must be sold! I am not salaried by AVEX. Gain if the song sells! Did you understand? I want to do my job and reap the benefits, and do not want to thank those who hurt my income!
Then work for it? Don't expect to just make a song and money to fall from the sky. You know, you could sell your songs on digital platforms... iTunes, Amazon MP3, bandcamp... You could put your song on Youtube and monetize your video along with other streaming services such as Deezer and Spotify. Then work hard to publicize it. If you don't do anything, it'll just continue that way. No money. We're in 2016 not 1987.
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Crockett
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Post by Crockett » 22 Oct 2016, 18:28

Lebon14

I read full your text, no between the lines.
Crockett wrote:they try to defend on multiple ways how to satisfy the listeners, which deliberately don't pay.

Theft will be always theft and there are no alternatives to make happy listeners, which never won't pay, the more to blame the artists themselves.
Of course you're right about the problems with blocked, limited distribution in modern world. Publisher can do more. And so what? More arguments to let upload 1 paid copy of SEB on YouTube to get it free by next 100 persons? The simple incontestable fact is stealing profits. I think this is the point. Uncontrolled propagation of news. Older, very old tracks are allowed on YouTube because have added advertisements.
Lebon14 wrote: Sunfire = ZERO marketing
Go Go's Music = ZERO marketing
Well, I think you forgot about me indeed. Perchaps for someone funny? Not for artists. Not at all. For example ParaPara International group on Facebook is devoted the kind of japanese dance.

Even Facebook is one integrated platform, Eurobeat community of the fans are typical ParaPara lovers, who often what I observed seem to be out of real music world with artists, and the second group are the lovers of music, artists and informations, ALSO ABOUT NEWS.

The members of group are on this forum and on my fan page too. But that's minority. As far as I managed to convince quite a few people from there to like and visit my fan page of current Go Go's Music and Sun Fire, the rest of members, theoretically over 1000 persons possibly or often even don't have in friends basical Eurobeat artists. Fans who like SEB Official fan page also often don't have even one artist in friends.

Should I explain how work public tags? I use them often. A lot of japanese, international fans have no clue or interest about ParaPara and these separated places where is nothing about same music. But they see my promotion found my fan page or tags before.

The problem is often incredible weird mentality of some fans. Even I post ALWAYS only content directly checked in Italy at studios (!), some fans wait until some artist will post the same (!) or are satisfied bullshits, rumors, which ten times went around the world without specifying source! So I think, are they feel ok? Finally often these fans can't see artists posts, because they really don't boast the Eurobeat news.

About marketing. Thank you.
Last edited by Crockett on 22 Oct 2016, 20:36, edited 3 times in total.

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Rain197
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Post by Rain197 » 22 Oct 2016, 18:35

Sunfire, the little they doing is fail. The Race of the Night is cut at 2:04 :D
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Bonkers
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Post by Bonkers » 22 Oct 2016, 18:58

Lebon, you shed some light on some serious aspects of Eurobeat: There's no PROMOTION outside SEF/StarFire & the youtube trailer. That's it...3 things for the SEB name, not for the artsits/tracks as individual products.

I don't have a problem with people putting the tracks up on youtube; people who are going to buy USUALLY want to hear something first, and the trailer just doesn't cut it, especially when it comes out 2 days before a release. Don't think for one second I didn't listen to SEB 219 on youtube before buying it myself.

On one hand, we can't blame the artists/labels if, by contract, they are not allowed to sale their tracks on mp3 sites like junodownload, trackitdown, etc. But if a label...in 2016 is actively refusing to simply not do it, even with the option there, then ya, there's an outlet of profit & advertisement they are choosing to miss out on. The gift and curse of eurobeat is that it's not played anywhere outside Tokyo....and I don't count anime cons, I mean actually PLAYED as night life dance music genre that it is. If tracks were sold on mp3 sites, you MIGHT actually see DJs picking them up for their own mixes in rave scenes, or dance music enthusiasts buying them for their own collection. But to make it work, these mp3 sales would have to come AFTER profits are made from the SEB release.

Personally, I like the UK Hardcore model: New tracks are first played at raves OR used on a CD mix/compilation. After sales for the CD have been made and profits met, the artist usually release that track, for sale, on an mp3 site. Back in the day, it use to be CD first---Vinyl Release within 2-3 months of the CD appearance----then mp3 release 3 months after the vinyl release.

Eurobeat is also the first genre I've yet to come across where the artists aren't actual DJs themselves, which leads back into the music not being played anywhere outside Tokyo.

But just think of HOW much more tracks we would get if the artists could release tracks on mp3 sites. They could make whatever songs they want, and submit the tracks they wanted to Avex for SEB release.

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Post by M2-EB » 22 Oct 2016, 19:05

Unless people start getting arrested for committing such crime no one can stop piracy. More specifically of the P2P kind. Streaming websites are a long as f*ck debate that takes to nowhere and you either embrace it or cry. I can say something about YouTube though. There are two possible situations:
Blocked videos (which is a good way to discourage people from uploading)
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or
Claimed videos (a large portion of all eurobeat-related stuff. Avex and similar companies are making some profit from piracy - ah, the irony)
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So tired of these sh*t discussions for f*ck's sake. Maybe do something great and stop using streaming websites? And stop watching TV as well because they use pirated music and videos all the time, oh! Stop using internet because you might come upon something that was illegally downloaded and distributed and oops you didn't know, ah damn.

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KiraTM
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Post by KiraTM » 22 Oct 2016, 19:17

M2-EB wrote:Unless people start getting arrested for committing such crime no one can stop piracy. More specifically of the P2P kind.
[...]
Stop using internet because you might come upon something that was illegally downloaded and distributed and oops you didn't know, ah damn.
It cost 250 Euro for a single downloaded mp3, uploader have even higher punishments (even until jail). However, this only applies to famous music. Even though it's definitely illegal to download/share things over P2P, you can get sued for it. But for that, avex would have to send lawyers to Germany. In the end, it would cost the company too much (that's why nobody gets sued for downloading unlicensed animes).

I don't all the laws in the world, but at least for my country it's like that: If a file is not obviously uploaded illegally, it's legal for you (example: an online shop offers you ripped mp3s for 50 cent. Because you paid for it, it looks legal, you'd have no problem as a downloader).
But here's the same problem as above: avex would need to come to your country.

Also, those sites which calculate the earnings of a video are pretty incorrect. According to those sites, the biggest Germany YouTuber would be a millionaire, but he isn't. But yeah, at least they get a little money from that.


@Lebon: Yeah, "theft" is a word which means that the original owner doesn't have his thing anymore. But that's nit-picking here. Whatever you call it, the copy created a little damage until the downloader buys the CD/file.

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Bore
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Post by Bore » 22 Oct 2016, 21:06

I'd rather have the piracy discussion be cut off short. As people have stated before, it has been gone through oh so many times and it never yields any new results. There are multiple sides to the story and the conversation never stays civil, so let's just not go through it at all. Please.

djtt
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Post by djtt » 22 Oct 2016, 21:16

One sad thing is that if I hadn't found out about Eurobeat through youtube and a Little bit of Piracy, I would never have known this genre existed at all. I'm very new to this, but already bought some eurobeat, the few things that's available on Itunes.
Getting the japanese cd's is something I want to do at some Point, so I can support the artists and labels more, but cd's are very expensive in Sweden, and I'm a bit scared of buying from Japan in case I pay a lot of Money and I don't get my cd, or if something goes wrong in the post so I have to pay even more to get it shipped.
So for the moment it's easyer to pirate download / listen on youtube, but I wish the music was available in more places.

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Post by djtt » 22 Oct 2016, 21:20

Anyway, back on topic.
I haven't Heard all the songs from seb 241, but my favorites so far are Mega nrg man's I'm Back and Roberta's burning in the rain.

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KiraTM
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Post by KiraTM » 22 Oct 2016, 21:29

I can guarantee you, I'm ordering from CDJapan since 2011 and each CD found its way to me. there were a very few (two?) orders which took above two months, but considering I have ordered above 70 times there, this is a very small amount of waiting time.

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