EUROLOVERS YT Channal has been terminated

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DirectorK
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EUROLOVERS YT Channal has been terminated

Post by DirectorK » 26 Nov 2016, 00:43

(From my post on idforums)

They did it! They fucking did it!

EUROLOVERS channel, the one and biggest channel that has been the front of bringing Eurobeat to the world for over six years, has been deleted due to third-party notifications for copyright infringement.

You fucking idiotis

Last night I noticed the videos through my latest Eurobeat playist consisting of the latest SEB album had been deleted. At first I wasn't all that surprised but then I noticed that over half of the music of my previous playist consisting music from SEB albums 231-239 has also been deleted. It at this point I really started to get worried. I was afraid I was going to wake up the next morning and find that the biggest Eurobeat on YouTube had been terminated. And lo and behold, it happened! All because a bunch of copyright assholes found it necessary to fuck over a person who in truth was doing nothing wrong.

Now before you starting saying that file-sharing is illegal, let me say this. What exactly is wrong with file-sharing? No, seriously. What exactly is wrong with it? Especially for a music genre that is barely known around the world outside of Japan? This isn't mainstream music we're talking about here, be it pop, hip-hop, rap, whatever. We're talking about a music genre that has had the bare minimum of promotion in the the nearly 27 years since it first started. The few who do know about it outside of Japan either discovered it through the anime Initial D or by chance. It was the reason why we became fans and why we made efforts to try to get this music better known and the one only ways to do that was with file-sharing through the internet. Illegal? Yes, but that the only way they could do it since Avex Trax made no efforts to try to promote SEB around the world.

So what exactly is wrong with file-sharing in this sense? Most of people doing it are not trying to make money off of it, nor are they claiming that it's their music. Many of those people will even acknowledge the copyright holders and specifically state that no copyright infringement is intended. They're only trying to share this music with other people. That's promotion, not copyright infringement. And yet, they're being punished for no fucking reason at all!

"Well, they didn't have permission from the company."

Fuck you! Under the fair use doctrine you allow to use clips from music or videos for whatever you're creating for nonprofit and educational purposes. You can actually upload entire movies or music if you wanted to for that reason. You do not the company's permission, written or verbal, unless you intent to make money off of it. Then you need their permission! If you're doing for free, and for promotional or educational reasons, then why the fuck should these companies care about file-sharing, especially for a an album that came out a long time ago, like five or ten years ago? What difference is it going to make? You not going to make any more money off of those old albums, nor are you going to lose any!

If Avex-Trax so worried about about file-sharing then what they should do is this. First, make bigger efforts to promote SEB. Second, create an official YouTube channel and upload the music there, just like everyone did only this time you'll be doing legally. Certain labels like SCP have done it! Many other music companies have done it! Why can't you? Third, wait until a certain time period after you release the latest album to upload the new music onto you YouTube channel, specifically when the initial sales finally die down. If anyone wants to buy the album afterwards, kudos. You just made a little extra money. Really, it's not that hard.

"Why don't you just buy the albums instead?"

Do you have any idea how hard it is to find a physical copy of any SEB album?

We're not talking about a real famous band here that has maybe a dozen albums under their belt that still sells even today. We're talking a compilation series, the worlds longest compilation series I might add, of various artists who came together to create something special yet in truth has received very little attention attention compared to famous band like the Bee Gees and Bon Jovi over the years. SEB albums sell like what? 500? 600 at the most with each release? That's a far cry to other famous albums from certain bands. And there's 241 albums out right now! Do you seriously expect people to just go out there and buy every single album out there?

Okay, let's say Avex Trax makes every SEB album available to buy except it's still only available in Japan. Oh! And let's not forget the Maharaja Night series and the Euroflash series. Hell, let's go ahead and throw in the Euromach megamixes and the Initial D special albums for good measure. That's 300 or so albums all thrown in together yet the only way a non Japanese fan can get them is to import them. Each SEB album we have had recently is nearly $23. To import them, shipping and handling would add $25+. So you're spending $50 for every single album. Let's do the math.

SEB Albums alone = $12, 050
Everything else thrown in = $15,000+

$15,000?! I can buy a new car in for that kind of money! Hell, I could even buy every single gaming console and a brand new gaming computer for the same amount. No one has that kind of money! No wants to spend that kind of money! Oh, I'm sure the most dedicated hardcore fan will but how many of those you think exist in the world? So the only other way to do it is to download them digitally, but even that's hard to do! SEB 241 had been out for two months now and it's still not available on itunes! WTF! Hell, last I checked, there seemed to little to no Eurobeat on itunes. And even if you could find the old albums, you'd be spending three times the amount of what it was originally worth because of how rare the album. So in the end, you'll be spending close to $20,000 total.

What the fuck is going Avex Trax?! What the fuck are you doing?! Your music is barely known outside of Japan! You've done nothing to help it grow it when it started to get attention partly because of Initial D. You could have taken that opportunity to feature Eurobeat in more anime products! Like having one about a high school band that did this kind of music. Hell, make it a musical if you like! You could have introduced SEB to the US and other places around the world when the new millennium came around! But no! You didn't! Instead you just chocking the very life out of these labels, most of which have been with from the very beginning, to get every little yen because you're not satisfied with all the other stuff you have.

So it shouldn't come as a surprise that certain people start file-sharing on YT because they know that you won't do it, knowing full well they risk having their channels deleted. Yet they do it anyway because that's how much they love this music and they want to share with the rest of the world in hopes of it getting the recognition it deserves. I understand why this happened but it happened for the wrong reasons. EUROLOVERS was one of your biggest supporters and he did everything he could to help promote your music. Yes it was illegal but that was the only way he could do it. And it's quite impressive that he lasted this long. But instead of asking him nicely to shut down his channel you instead let the copy-right police slit his throat. And for what? Nothing! Except "Give us money God Dammit!"

And that's the funny thing! EUROLOVERS was doing this for nothing! He wasn't asking for money, he wasn't trying the steal anyone's music. He's was only doing this to share and promote. How exactly is that wrong?! I just don't understand why people are so convinced that this wrong. You might as well say that I'm not allowed to play this kind of music in a social gathering because I don't have the company's permission. I know that sounds stupid but that's what it's leading to!

Sigh... :(

Unbelievable. Nearly seven years of hard work from this channel and it ends like this. Over 4,000 videos and nearly 40,000 subscribers. That alone should tell you something. Sure, it's a far cry from other music channels that over a million subscribers but I consider that a major accomplishment seeing that number rise slowly but surely everyday. EUROLOVERS was the best Eurobeat channel for many reasons. He's part of the reason why I have a channel on YouTube. I could sit there listen to just about every Eurobeat song without to look all over the internet or spend a bunch just to do so. Now, it looks like I'm not going to be able to anymore. Sure, there's other channels out there but... don't count on them being around for much longer. Now that this... "purge" is going on how long do you think it will be before all those other channels are terminated? Tomorrow? Next week? Two weeks from now? A month if their lucky?

I don't know what to say guys. We have every reason to be worried now. I'm pretty much convinced that at this point we'll never see SEB get out of the slump it's been for the last few years. When you at SEB and its amazing history, it's really sad to see the state it's in now. A mere shadow of what it once was. I just can't see it lasting beyond 2020 with the way Avex Trax is treating it. If this continues on, I think what needs to happen is that the Italian labels need to split from SEB and Avex Trax entirely because they're not going anywhere. They can't go anywhere because Avex Trax won't let them. They need to just leave and start all over. Maybe move over to the US and try to get some new young blood into the genre. If they really made an effort on that, it could really turn into something special.

"SUPER AMERICA BEAT"

That actually doesn't sound too bad.

Overall, I'm really sad and upset about this. But... this event might mean something. Maybe Avex Trax is going to exactly what I suggested up above. But... given to what they've been doing lately I'm not about to get my hopes up just yet. I'm hoping for the best but I'm also expecting the worse. For all those who like to share Eurobeat on YouTube you better be prepared because you might be next.

This was the wrong thing to do Avex Trax and you fucking know it. And that goes for all you copyright police(or should I say "Euro-police) as well who made this happen. Don't give me that crap about it being justified because that's just plain bullshit. Thanks to you, a good channel is gone forever along with any hope of Eurobeat might have on ever making an impact around the world. I hope you people are proud of yourselves because you won't get any support or sympathy from me.

EUROLOVERS, if you happen to see this post, thank you for all you hard work over the years. I don't care if it was illegal, you did it out of pure dedication and you did it with pride. I enjoyed every song you put up and your efforts is what made Eurobeat so special to listen to. It's a real sad shame that it had to end like this, but it was fun while it lasted. Whatever you do from now on, I wish you the best.

"So I say
Thank you for the music, the songs I'm singing
Thanks for all the joy they're bringing
Who can live without it, I ask in all honesty
What would life be?
Without a song or a dance what are we?
So I say thank you for the music
For giving it to me"


R.I.P. EUROLOVERS
2010-2016

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Lebon14
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Post by Lebon14 » 26 Nov 2016, 02:00

You don't know how freaking much I tried to convince people to agree with (especially here) what you've just said above. I've been trying to hammer this for so long, yet, there's no improvement. I don't feel like hammering it AGAIN.

However, there are other good reason to share all of the music online and the biggest one is: preservation. If we want to know what a compilation was like, we need to preserve it. How? By copying it of course. But because the eurobeat community is so damn stubborn about it, some compilation will be forgotten and unobtainable. Then, the music on it will be lost. There are also reasons why I try to hammer the labels into putting their music online; not only on iTunes but also on platforms where lossless is available. Lossless, while most people don't need it, is the original unaltered recording. As long as this is available online for download, we can preserve it. Unfortunately, Avex makes it so damn hard for producers to ever make their stuff available it's not even funny on top of having certain producers stuck in the 80's mentality. Preservation can't take place.

However, people think that most eurobeat producers still work full time on eurobeat and that we should buy all of the CDs. If this was still the golden age, I would believe you but, we aren't. They now do this in their leisure time. Most of them have another job. So, they get a set amount of cash from Avex from their contract and that's it.

As for the price of the CDs, you could easily double that for Canadians. I paid 40$ for SEB 241. Also, some albums such as SEB 198 or SEB 217 can hardly be found new anymore because they never got reprinted. SEB 198 goes for 100$ new and SEB 217 goes for min. 125$ used (yes, USED). SEB 7 (Avex SEB), goes for 250$ used. No jokes. Check the online prices yourself. Then, you wonder why people pirate. Make your fucking stuff available and affordable then it'll drop. That's the only way.

Piracy, for people that do it is to share the love of music, to allow to those that can't afford it to be able to listen, to preserve the music and, finally, to show the fucking copyright holders that they are doing it wrong.

Because of all that, we lost of eurobeat history and we can't get it back. Congratulations! You made eurobeat even less popular and available!
DirectorK wrote:You might as well say that I'm not allowed to play this kind of music in a social gathering because I don't have the company's permission. I know that sounds stupid but that's what it's leading to!
.
Eh. Technically, you shouldn't. If you look on the artwork of all CDs, it's printed... "Unauthorized copying, hiring, renting, public performance and broadcasting of this recording is prohibited". You never were supposed to play CDs at large gathering since it's covered in the "broadcasting" part of it.
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DirectorK
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Post by DirectorK » 26 Nov 2016, 04:19

What I meant by social gathering was by hanging with friends at a party and such and playing this music in the background. I wasn't talking about broadcasting at large gathering and stuff like that.

But you're right about the preservation thing. We are losing what makes Eurobeat great for no reason other than greed and stupidity.

You know what? I know this is a long shot but I think us real SEB fans who want to see this music genre saved need to come together and start some kind of movement to preserve Eurobeat music. Avex Trax has proven time and again they don't give a shit and are not going to anything about it, so it's up to us fans now. I know that sounds impossible but something needs to be done. Otherwise Eurobeat is going to die a horrible death and only a very small percentage of the world is going to remember it. Us.

Which is funny because certain fans have said they don't want to see Eurobeat go mainstream. My guess is because they don't want to see it suffer the same fate as Disco did with "The day Disco died". Well, guess what people? Starting with what happened today "The day Eurobeat died" is on its way, and you people will be partly responsible for it.

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Post by WNight » 26 Nov 2016, 04:26

At this point, I am just wondering who the fucking brown nosers are. Actually, scratch that, this entire fiasco began with the release of 241 so while I don't claim to be certain, I think we more or less have an idea who the "wise guys" behind these recent events are.

Now again, I don't claim to endorse piracy but the same rules of anti piracy to mainstream just cannot be copy and pasted to an underground and dare I say, rapidly declining genre like eurobeat. The possibility of eurobeat coming to a complete halt has never been more apparent than it is now and I recognize an inherent value that EUROLOVERS and other smaller channels around serve to bring eurobeat to a larger audience and just generally doing what Avex downright sucks at doing - Yes, Avex, YOU created these pirates so to speak. To start off with, the channel has a ton of older eurobeat in GLORIOUS EXTENDED EDITION that are now or have never been accessible to anyone who isn't living in Japan, hell some of the songs were never even released in extended even in Japan, so my first question to you euro police fuckwits out there - If I, or anyone else for that matter want to listen to an extended edition of say, Matt Land's Bad Dream or Dance In My Town by Dave & Futura, why don't you holy honourable saints ENLIGHTEN me on where I can do that right now? What, iTunes? Well, iTunes ain't got jack. Are you not seeing how you're making the genre even LESS accessible than IT ALREADY IS?

Secondly, it's been mentioned but I'll elaborate on much more recent releases. 241, which is almost 2 months old now is not out on iTunes yet with the possibility that it may never be because reasons, neither is anything prior to 231. You could say "oh, a little wait won't kill" or "just buy the CD!" but it does serve as a reminder that Avex can flip flop on the accessibility of eurobeat anytime they want, I think most long time eurobeaters would have seen or experienced this at some point or another throughout their eurobeat journey so it's not up for debate. Say right now I don't need or want a physical copy at this time or maybe I just want a few tracks I like via preview. CD import while not terribly expensive, isn't exactly cheap either even WITHIN ASIA, and now, the only digital medium available to me takes way too long or maybe even refuse/can't have the newest album on it's line up because god knows what is going on at Avex HQ, so what am I to do? Cry? Quit listening to eurobeat? Well, nice job! Now you just lost another fan!

Finally, I just want to say something to those brown nose fans/producers (this one is more important since they actually have a "voice") alike themselves : If eurobeat were to "fail" today, you have just as much blood on your hands as pure pirates. Like it or not, right or wrong (in your perception), the only reason why eurobeat has more exposure than it is supposed to have is only because of filesharing/youtube and it is your choice if you want to view this as a sin to humanity or as a means of letting more potential people know about your music and while you will have just for example, 7 pirates out of 10, you could have gained 3 extra sales - until they realize the hassle involved and then ... well. Instead of yapping like a dog all the time about filesharing killing sales or what not, why don't you direct that same enthusiasm and loud voice and effort that you have to Avex and tell them what a horse shit job they're doing at handling SEB matters and bring the voices of the eurobeat community along instead of hawking youtube channels for illegal eurobeat all the time waiting for the chance to press the report button. The occasional fan message or whatever SEB master survey crap are not substitutes for accessibility and promotion and I know for a fact that Avex KNOWS the genre have an international audience courtesy of the fan messages in 241, they probably just didn't give two shits. In fact, I'd probably go as far as saying that while SEB need not go totally mainstream, had it been much more promoted and much more easily accessible, it would probably generate enough additional sales that SEB could have remained on it's normal schedule instead of this weird 1 SEB per 2 month schedule and all these frequent long breaks we're having (which by the way, could have been a nice opportunity to bring attention to older eurobeat but nope, EUROBEAT ON YOUTUBE?! BURN!). Hey, euro-polices out there : Why don't you kindly address ANY of these issues?
You and me like a fire tonight
Me and you 2 guardian angels
Now I feel your touch into my heart
A ray of sun~

- Guardian Angels / Oceania

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Post by Lebon14 » 26 Nov 2016, 04:56

I could have not put it myself better, WNight.

Btw, I heard a rumor from a friend that Avex butched the high-res cover for SEB 239 because they heard people distributing the hi-res and they didn't like that. You know what? They distributed it themselves and they are angry that we use the Apple iTunes API to get artwork for our digital collections.

I did not make this up. And that's another reason why Avex is just so fucking bad at handling SEB.
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Post by #Infinity » 26 Nov 2016, 05:41

If Avex had released all Super Eurobeat albums in North America like they did in other territories, then I would not have an issue with Eurolovers being deleted. But they didn't. Instead, you have to order each compilation for $30 on CD Japan, and if you turn out to hardly like any of the songs, then too bad for you.

And I was just considering catching back up on the series. Oh well.
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Post by Markos » 26 Nov 2016, 06:47

Well, I would have never discovered Eurobeat without YouTube videos ( Im still a newby 2013 ish). I've also paid a lot of money forward too, directly to artists when possible, buying new cds from Cd japan (which are not exactly cheap).
That was a good channel to find new songs. I bought quite a few records because of that too.... oh well I guess, but sucks to people that may have liked it but will never hear it at all.

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Post by Bore » 26 Nov 2016, 08:19

While always wanting to keep Eurobeat-Prime a zone that doesn't endorse piracy, I personally haven't been too negatively against it all. I would never have ended up finding the genre nor spending thousands of euros on the albums without mp3s and online distribution, so I do consider it a good promotional feature if nothing else. But from my perspective I quite frankly don't believe the closure of Eurolovers a reason of the recent events. I mean honestly, the channel had technically nearly everything the genre had to hold? Had nobody else earlier considered it to be so blatantly illegal in the long run and it'd eventually come to an end? I'm sad to see the channel go, but I do think it's only reasonable from a legal standpoint.

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Post by HikariPL » 26 Nov 2016, 12:00

Well... Nothing can be done now...
It's time to create/find new channel all about Eurobeat.
Good idea for person that creates channel like that - create a backup channel, or buy a 2TB HDD just for videos/songs that You upload. Just in case of getting terminated.

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Post by M2-EB » 26 Nov 2016, 12:49

The deletion of that channel was the pinnacle of the recent events. First, Avex started some witch hunting on YouTube (they claimed any song in any videos but wrongly, not all were even eurobeat - if you don't dispute, ok: they'll make money out of some music you didn't even use or heard about because fuck you) and what else.

If their goal is to make eurobeat Japan-exclusive, guess that's how. If they want to discourage piracy and file sharing, power to them. Maybe they should terminate all other channels as well. Shut down download links and p2p worldwide. Of course, they won't be able to do this.

It's a dying genre in its lasts days and its main company just shoot themselves in the foot. Amazing.

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Re: EUROLOVERS YT Channal has been terminated

Post by Anthony McBazooka » 26 Nov 2016, 15:40

DirectorK wrote:"SUPER AMERICA BEAT"

That actually doesn't sound too bad.
It does. Please not anymore of that 'murican cultural imperialism.
You may not notice it in North America, but Europe's music has already almost been replaced by American music. Even Europeans sing rhotic English now. This has to stop. I'm not a patriot or anything but I think the heritage of European music is something that deserves to be preserved simply because it's good.

It's weird that Eurobeat isn't even easily available in Europe.

I don't want to write about negative emotions (although I got a lot of those too), but I'd rather try to think about how it can be possible to change the situation.
As a musician I can only say that I will continue to carry the Eurobeat flag and will make my music as accessible as possible. There is not much more I can do, but it's already a lot of work.
What you can do as fans is to support independent artists more, like talk about their songs, share them, and of course buy them if you like them. For someone who can easily buy an imported CD for 50$ it's won't be too hard to spend 10$ for an album of equal length on Bandcamp (available in lossless quality, so the same as a CD). With that you can show Avex and others what you as fans care about besides great music. And you help to create the possibility to establish new networks for Eurobeat creation and distribution.
At the moment I am planning to create such a network together with some artists in Japan and some artists in North America. One goal is to make CDs and merch stuff available easily in the entire world, not only in some countries.
Sadly I only see few people like Lebon14 for example who really care about stuff from other artists than those who are signed to Avex, although some of those artists have reached equal or even higher quality level than SEB.
With the recent events I think this is even more important now. So if there's nothing you can't do about Avex for now, there is still something you can do and I as well as other Eurobeat artists still count on your support to keep the genre alive.
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Post by Bonkers » 26 Nov 2016, 18:40

DirectorK, You're mad that a playlist of a genre of music you don't even legally & financially support got shut down? No, you have no right to complain.

You ask, "And there's 241 albums out right now! Do you seriously expect people to just go out there and buy every single album out there? :

From the Distributor's (Avex) standpoint: YES! That's WHY they're sold. That's why anything is sold! If you want the music, that's how it comes packaged. End of story (it doesn't matter if you think it's outdated). I'm in the States, and it costs roughly $27-$28 TOTAL with shipping, to get a NEW SEB from CDJapan. There are countless used copies on Ebay and Amazon that run cheap. If you can buy a new video game, audio accessories, laptops/PC/iPad, go to the movies, out to eat, or anything else that runs you $27, then you can afford an SEB cd.

Once again: You have no right to complain what the distributor does with their product if you're not going to legally obtain/support the product.


On the YT issue, the only reason I bought what I did was because I was able to hear it first. (Where would my collection be without Mi's para videos?) The music being on YT could only benefit Avex, so I don't understand this move (unless peeps were supplying the download link in the description). I think that's something Avex and these producers need to think about, especially for international peeps; maybe put the tracks on their own YT channel. Also, there are countless mp3 stores (Beatport, junodownload, trackitdown), They need to hone into these sites as well, and not just for Japan residents.

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Post by M2-EB » 26 Nov 2016, 19:08

^ This

It's their work and they own the rights to do whatever they want with it - we agreeing or not. I think it was a big loss either way… :o

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Post by Anthony McBazooka » 26 Nov 2016, 20:44

Bonkers wrote:DirectorK, You're mad that a playlist of a genre of music you don't even legally & financially support got shut down? No, you have no right to complain.
There's freedom of speech, so technically he has the right. You can question if his complaints make sense but you can't question if he has the right to complain or not.

Really it's not a question about rights. We all know who has which rights to do what. Can we please just stop that? The same goes for explanations of the kind the copyright owners have the right to do what they want … yes, we all know, but that's absolutely not the point here.
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Post by Bonkers » 26 Nov 2016, 20:57

M2-EB wrote:^ This

It's their work and they own the rights to do whatever they want with it - we agreeing or not. I think it was a big loss either way… :o
Definitely a harsh move. Think about it, you look at a house before you buy it. You test a car before you buy it. You date someone before you marry the person. People need to hear music before they spend hard earned money on it. If you're going to go after people uploading videos with tracks from 1991-2011, then you better get those CD pressing machines up and running and start distributing those lost volumes again, or make those iTunes versions available to all of iTunes.

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