Evolution of electronic music.

[Pol NRG]

German dance is a rather multi-genre definition. German style of hi nrg
is typically reffered to as eurodisco. My biggest fave in this style is C.C.Catch.

You are still wrong. Eurodisco are all European Disco music mouvements (German Dance, Italodisco, Sabadell Sound, etc...) so I don't like to use this absurd term because it mix a lot of different styles. There's only two Hi-NRG styles; the English (Evelyn Thomas, Lime, Patrick Cowley etc..) and the Italian, such as the productions of High Energy Records a sub-label of the legendary Italodisco label Discomagic Productions, so please don't mix the "hi nrg" term with the German people. Talking about 80's, the German Dance are German productions, no more no less, and C.C. Catch as well.

The difference is a lot more than just bpm change.

Wrong again but if you want, add more advanced the technology.

Well known That's eurobeat compilation presented eurobeat.
Mela,Jenny Kee,Moltocarina,+contemporaries are actually all eurobeat.
Eurobeat is an italian hi nrg. Hi nrg as a style is rather british
and american creation. Italian sound was too different from those.
So,italo just transited into a eurobeat, with the switch to a japanese
market among italian labels. Germans never understood that Japan is
a vital market, and lost all their eurodisco business by the early 90-s.

A suggestion, never believe as a reference the title of a compilation, there's a lot of them wrong, a lot of them mixed a lot of music styles, it's a marketing strategy in order to sell more and more copies....... always you must believe in your ear. To me, Mela,Jenny Kee,Moltocarina is more close to Italodisco than Eurobeat but it's not Italodisco, it's Hi-NRG (Italian)

My world is eurobeat.

"My World" is Hi-NRG, it's close to Italodisco but also to Eurobeat sound = Hi-NRG (Italian)

ciao,
Pol

[jeurobeat]

Well known That's eurobeat compilation presented eurobeat.
Mela,Jenny Kee,Moltocarina,+contemporaries are actually all eurobeat.
Eurobeat is an italian hi nrg. Hi nrg as a style is rather british
and american creation. Italian sound was too different from those.
So,italo just transited into a eurobeat, with the switch to a japanese
market among italian labels. Germans never understood that Japan is
a vital market, and lost all their eurodisco business by the early 90-s.

A suggestion, never believe as a reference the title of a compilation, there's a lot of them wrong, a lot of them mixed a lot of music styles, it's a marketing strategy in order to sell more and more copies....... always you must believe in your ear. To me, Mela,Jenny Kee,Moltocarina is more close to Italodisco than Eurobeat but it's not Italodisco, it's Hi-NRG (Italian)

I keep reading your finger-pointing of people being "wrong", but how can anyone be wrong in this matter? I think Vadim is right! First italo, then eurobeat. Didn't Alfa Records invent the term Eurobeat? Maybe not, but they used it since 1987 or somethink like that.

My world is eurobeat.

"My World" is Hi-NRG, it's close to Italodisco but also to Eurobeat sound = Hi-NRG (Italian)

ciao,
Pol

What makes "My World", "Soft Time" and "Tell Me Why" so different? In my opinion, their exactly the same style: eurobeat. And that genre "Hi-NRG (Italian)"... never heard of it before!

[Wataru Akiyama]

What an interesting look on the evolution of Electronic music... but this website lacks any credibility due to many disrespectful, and immature comments made by the webmaster in his summaries. I think that if I were to make a website showing the revolution of electronic music, I would try to present it in a more, respectful, non-childish manner.

ie.
Under J-Pop:
"Is anyone even surprised that this kind of stuff would come from Japan? That whole country is like Bizarro world."

Under Eurobeat:
"It's role is to be the background music for funny fitness competitions on TV..."

Under Happy:
"I bet they play this kind of stuff to calm lunatics at insane asylums locked in padded rooms with pink walls."

etc...

I'll drink to that. He's quite a nasty piece of work, with all those insulting comments.

[newfield]

well,I didn't want to step in this topic coz it's very hard to explain differences.
From my point of view:

Italodisco

very low bpm ,simple structure ,(bad)italian vocalists and from musical side the accent is on the bass drum(kick is big),people dance on the downbeat.
Music is more important then lyrics.
Song: Happy children

Eurobeat

high bpm,some songs has sophisticated harmony,good vocalists.Accent is not on kick but on the upstroke as in reggae music.Perfect for para para.
Vocals are clear and lyrics important as music.
Song: Abeat C & Delta stuff

the link between is called high-energy.It's a period where the bpm get faster and elements of american-english dance music find their way into italian productions.
Listen to Bobby O. and P.Cowley,you'll hear the sinth phrases and melodies of the early Saifam hits...and you'll understand where DOA is coming from!!Then Boom boom Dollars came from DOA (pistols in my pocket) ,the japanese got the saifam stuff and customized our productions to get the final eurobeat for para para dancing.

german-disco is same as italo-disco but did not evolve.


there's a lot to say!!

[jp75]

How much more somphisticated and complicated is to composed an eurobeat song compared with a maintream music that we are so used to listen?

[Pol NRG]

I keep reading your finger-pointing of people being "wrong", but how can anyone be wrong in this matter? I think Vadim is right! First italo, then eurobeat. Didn't Alfa Records invent the term Eurobeat? Maybe not, but they used it since 1987 or somethink like that.

Hi guys, feel free to think whatever you want, I'm sorry if the word "WRONG" sounds hard but it was not my intention to offend you. I'm an Italodisco collector since 1985 when I was 16yr old, I'm collecting Hi-NRG style (Moltocarina, Jenny Kee, Robert Camero etc...) and also I'm an Eurobeat collector, the line that divide these three style is very thin but I can hear the difference; I can hear also the difference between the Italodisco from 1983 or 1985

What makes "My World", "Soft Time" and "Tell Me Why" so different? In my opinion, their exactly the same style: eurobeat. And that genre "Hi-NRG (Italian)"... never heard of it before!

Do you are saying that NIKO - NIGHT OF FIRE (Eurobeat) sounds exactly as SOPHIE - MY WORLD? This is the first time you'll see the term Hi-NRG, and remember, tomorrow you can't say "I never heard of it before!" take a look to the image of High Energy Records (Jasmine, Ian Lex, Alan Barry, Krystyna, Jacqueline, Philip, Mc Brian, etc.......




they are NOT Eurobeat, they are NOT Italodisco, they are Hi-NRG (Italian)

and why not, this is an Eurobeat label but they are using the term Hi-NRG...




My nick (Pol NRG) is dedicated to this music style... Hi-NRG (Italian) when my friends Clara and Laurent started in Time Records his careers

By the way, read the reply of Laurent about "the link" between Italodisco and Eurobeat = Hi-NRG... Italian

All the best!
Pol

[Sadie]

My nick (Pol NRG) is dedicated to this music style... Hi-NRG (Italian) when my friends Clara and Laurent started in Time Records his careers

By the way, read the reply of Laurent about "the link" between Italodisco and Eurobeat = Hi-NRG... Italian

I, after listening to music from all three (Italo-Disco, Hi-NRG, and Eurobeat) think I agree with Pol. Hi-NRG doesn't sound neccesarily like one or the other; it has elements that would be present in a music style that evolved from either.

Now, I'm definitely not an expert or anything (I can't top 1986.... I wasn't even born until 1989!) but from what I hear, and what I've read, Hi-NRG comes off as a form that evolved from it [Italo-Disco].

Just my thoughts.

[oresama-chan]

I don't understand why ppl are so inclinable to integrate those terms.

I think it's like the sensory organ to form a visual image is called "eye" in English, "occhio" in Italian, "me" in Japanese and what not.

As I said before, the term Eurobeat had already appeared on the British music info magazine, "Record Miller" in December 1985 and that was used to indicate all round European made disco music that were in fashion back then including PWL, Italo, German etc.

Look at this South African site, where you'll find also they started compilation series named "Eurobeat" in 1986 out there as well as Alfa records started "That's Eurobeat" in the same year.

Also check this page from Peter's site to find what songs he refers to as Eurobeat. He is Australian.

Well, let me put in this way, from the begining there was a difference in the aspect of Eurobeat between continental European ppl and British ppl (and ppl from the countries under influence of UK music scene like South Africa, Australia, Japan...). Continental European ppl didn't know the term Eurobeat before SEB series started.

Of course, I agree that today's Eurobeat is much different from the early days' one, but we actually called them Eurobeat in those days!! Please don't deny my sweet memories!!

[Vadim]

You are still wrong. Eurodisco are all European Disco music mouvements (German Dance, Italodisco, Sabadell Sound, etc...)

I am aware that eurodisco term is used in such way,but it it does not define styles,it's just a way to group stuff together and not really classify anything. I preffer to go deeper and actually define tracks by styles rather than general term groupings. It's the same type of thing that
ís used for zyx compilations,they call everything and anything italo.

There's only two Hi-NRG styles; the English (Evelyn Thomas, Lime, Patrick Cowley etc..) and the Italian.

I like the difinition of a whole genre as hi nrg,and under that genre there may be many styles like hi nrg,eurodisco,italo,eurobeat, and hi nrg can certainly also be reffered to as a style of american disco 80-s music that crossed over to UK, and which later fully blended in with an italian syle of italo disco. Calling a whole genre of this unique electronic genre a disco is confusing because there is a whole universe of original disco music that came from 70-s. I like the hi nrg definition better,beside it shows the genesis of this unique electronic sound from 70-s in USA and Italy.

always you must believe in your ear. To me, Mela,Jenny Kee,Moltocarina is more close to Italodisco than Eurobeat but it's not Italodisco, it's Hi-NRG (Italian)

Eurobeat is an active form of an italian hi nrg. It is enevitable that
sound will change within one style over the years as it is important
to keep the sound fresh for the labels to keep licensing tracks.
I never met a term Italian NRG or Italian Hi Nrg anywhere,but this music
was presented in Japan as eurobeat since that transitional time of like
87-88-89,as Densetsu states. I am not against calling this transitional sound Hi Nrg. I just don't see it much as a separate style from eurobeat.

Laurent has written a superb comment, his perspective is very deep
and it's very exciting to read his views and observations.
He actually made this music back when this sound was a new field,
so he certainly feels this sound in a very intimate and personal way.

[Wataru Akiyama]

How much more somphisticated and complicated is to composed an eurobeat song compared with a maintream music that we are so used to listen?

Your grammar is fight!

[jeurobeat]

Do you are saying that NIKO - NIGHT OF FIRE (Eurobeat) sounds exactly as SOPHIE - MY WORLD? This is the first time you'll see the term Hi-NRG, and remember, tomorrow you can't say "I never heard of it before!" take a look to the image of High Energy Records (Jasmine, Ian Lex, Alan Barry, Krystyna, Jacqueline, Philip, Mc Brian, etc.......

Ofcourse I do know the term Hi-NRG! It's been around for years! But the consequent addition of "(italian)" behind it, was new to me. That's what I never heard of... I'll try to be more clear in the future. Besides, I have a copy of quite some of the records/artists you mention.

I did't say that NIGHT OF FIRE sounds like MY WORLD! I said that TELL ME WHY sounds like MY WORLD. If Hi-NRG is regarded as the transition between italo and eurobeat (that's fine by me), I would say that MY WORLD and TELL ME WHY fall into the same category (probably Hi-NRG). My message was a bit short, but that' s all I meant, okay?

[Pol NRG]

First of all take a look to this compilation:


Best of Time / Italo Hi-Nrg Vol 1

Tracklist:

Les Blue Belles-"SOS" 7:00
Macho Gang-"Shake Shake" 6:25
Danny Keith-"Lean on me" 6:28
Virgin-"Super Catching Desire" 6:00
Vanessa-"Eternity" 5:42
Linda Ross-"Run Run" 6:15
Anika-"Precious love" 7:00
Les Blue Belles-"Shine a little love" 6:55
Gipsy & Queen-"Love"(remix) 6:30
Sophie-"Dial My Number" 5:20
Virgin-"All your Love" 6:10
Lisa Johnson-"Love" 6:30
Lisa Johnson-"Love" (accapella) 1:20

http://cgi.ebay.fr/BEST-OF-TIME-ITALO-H ... dZViewItem

That's I call Hi-NRG

As I said before, the term Eurobeat had already appeared on the British music info magazine, "Record Miller" in December 1985 and that was used to indicate all round European made disco music that were in fashion back then including PWL, Italo, German etc.

That's the reason why this term was used by mistaken in a lot of compilations and it confused a lot of fans and then the Hi-NRG (italian) was owned by Eurobeat term

Ofcourse I do know the term Hi-NRG! It's been around for years! But the consequent addition of "(italian)" behind it, was new to me.

I added the "Italian" word because it must be differentiated of the english Hi-NRG (P. Cowley, etc...), but it's just called Hi-NRG

I did't say that NIGHT OF FIRE sounds like MY WORLD! I said that TELL ME WHY sounds like MY WORLD. If Hi-NRG is regarded as the transition between italo and eurobeat (that's fine by me), I would say that MY WORLD and TELL ME WHY fall into the same category (probably Hi-NRG). My message was a bit short, but that' s all I meant, okay?

Probably SOPHIE - TELL ME WHY are placed in the frontier between Hi-NRG and Eurobeat same as FRED VENTURA - IMAGINE (Italodisco ~ Hi-NRG)

Finally I found a solution and everybody happy, this is a the better way to call Hi-NRG:

"The early days of Eurobeat called Hi-NRG"

All the best!
Pol

[drnrg]

One big difference between Hi- NRG , Italo Disco, and Eurobeat are the heavy guitars Eurobeat uses. Compare the styles of jeff Driller, Mega NRG Man and Mike J. to the softer sound "My World" or "Crank It Up"(Stop Limit Line or Thomas & Shubert) they may contain some guitar bass as backround effect, but not the main element as in Eurobeat. Also Eurobeat sounds much more aggresive in vocals. which give it a "Tuff" sounding edge not that High Energy can't be tuff. Take Teddyboys "Ready For Love". Very low in bpms, but Gino's vocals give it a harder edge....and no hard guitars.

Another difference is the "mixable" ability the three genres have. 80's Italo like Tension-My Dream or Styloo "Why" are almost imposbe to mix because of the slow bpm's. Eurobeat nowadys has the same problem. You no longer get that smooth transition from one song to the other and the break is almost extinct. In my opinion late 80's and early 90's had the best bpms for mixing. My favorite labels for mixing are FLEA, ASIA, High Energy,Disco Energy,FCF, O Records, J.D.C and TIME up untill 1995 after that the breaks became to experimental. ABeatC also had a nice start with songs like "Commedia" and "Hold The Line". As for HRG Attack. FAST? YESS. very, but the first songs contained a decent break with just drums which make them very mixable. Just for the record: I remember the first song which lost that quality...It was "Batman Is Bruce Wayne" A great song, but not in mixing quality. I also think Eurobeat's intense bpms and poor mixing qualities, killed 12' sales.

So where does American Hi NRG from 80's fall? Actually it is not American, because they were all imports. ex= Tapps,People Like Us, J.D. Hall,Stacy Q, Mike Mareen, Paul Lekekis, Dead Or Alive. Those were all huge acts in the states and the music sounded "Tuff" as opposed to BananaRama, Rick Astly and Erasure....and they were all called Hi NRG. I know ,because I lived there. In fact those acts got me started on Hi NRG music and mixing. Those songs were all very easy to mix

Just thought I would add my comments

[oresama-chan]

As I said before, the term Eurobeat had already appeared on the British music info magazine, "Record Miller" in December 1985 and that was used to indicate all round European made disco music that were in fashion back then including PWL, Italo, German etc.

That's the reason why this term was used by mistaken in a lot of compilations and it confused a lot of fans and then the Hi-NRG (italian) was owned by Eurobeat term

Well, The term Eurobeat wasn't essentially designed to point any specific musical genre/style of European disco music, but just to rename their
dance chart formerly called Hi-Nrg chart, where European disco tracks were sorted as per how frequently they were played in Uk discos, therefore it consequently included various styles like Hi-Nrg, PWL productions, Synth pop, Italo disco, German disco, Italian dance etc.

All those styles were presented as Eurobeat to Japan in 1986 - 1987 with compilation series like That's Eurobeat, Eurobeat Fantasy, Best Disco and so on. Nothing more, nothing less.

As these styles were going out in Europe, all the other labels than some Italo disco labels stopped producing them, but thanks to Italian producers, we still could enjoy PART of Eurobeat { = Italo disco, and Italian Hi-Nrg as advanced (or customized for Japanese?) Italo}, which we called "Italobeat" for a period of time (around 1989), but that term soon went out of use because the term "Eurobeat" had firmly taken root among Japanese.

THE Eurobeat has been carrying through ever since then even affected by prevalent styles (techno, trance, happy hard core etc.) moment to moment.

This is the reason why contemporary Eurobeat, even if it's the scion of Italo Disco, is still called "Eurobeat".

So ignorance of the history of this term and the fact that Japanese didn't adopt a new term replacing Eurobeat when the specific style got to occupy the whole albums (which made people think as if Eurobeat is the term to indicate the specific style) would account for the confusion.

Anyway I'm happy if only I can keep on listening to this fabulous music from Italy!

[euro up north]

euro up north wrote:
Quote:
Vadim wrote:

It's hard to say if eurobeat wouldn't at all exist without italo.
Italo was the original pure unique italian sound, and eurobeat is basically a 90-s-2000-s thing which watered down the later italian hi nrg
with anything they could think of to keep the japanese export going through all the changing fashions in japanese music taste.



Hi Vadim,

The Eurobeat is the natural evolution of the old Italodisco; the only difference between Italodisco and Eurobeat is the tempo increased (BPMs) and the technology of course... but that's all, ..no more no less same labels, same producers, same singers, same style. By the way, time ago in a dinner with my friend Laurent we told about this matter and he agreed. The Hi-NRG (Italian) was the transition period between Italodisco and Eurobeat. Personally I think the correct term to define the Eurobeat sound must have been... "Italobeat"


Well mr Pol NRG. Now you will be angry.

Because i think you are not entirly correct.
The Eurobeat is not coming straigt from Italo disco. I know, same labels and same producers. But the producers hasn´t evoluted themselves.
Italodisco lived its own life, but the evolution of eurobeat began at the same time, but in another track. You can call it a brother or cousinstyle.
The style is called HI-nrg, and as developed of a man called Ian Levine. He aslo had a hit called Hi-nrg.
1984 Three men called Stock Aitken and Waterman began creating music and they began with HI-nrg sound. But in 1987, when they met the forth, but for many unknown member, Peter Hammond, they set a new sound.
The sound is for many people the correct defenition of eurodisco.
The success is legendary and SAW will be remembered for all time.
SAW wasn´t only famous because of their music. They were also the first musicion to "factorise" the music, producing hits like a factory. The sound of Hammond and SAW became a norm for the musicindustry.
SAW:s producingtecniqe were before their time and the company PWL market that with a sign: Todays sound, tomorrows tecnology.

The concept was of course copied. From sound to producing. Farina Crivillent cloned the concept and went from italodisco to eurodisco.

In Japan they called the music eurobeat. SAW hade a record from Japan called "Kings of eurobeat" and SAW is definetly one of the biggest reasons, why the eurobeatsound of today, is what it is.

The first collections of eurobeat, sound almost like SAW. Noteble is that in two of the first records of early eurobeat "That´s eurobeat-series" SAW had a few songs represented.

If you listen to early SEB, you´ll here the sound of SAW, but it isn´t.

Now, that is a very long time ago, because with SEB, the music started to develop itself, as a new style, that kept the happiness of SAW, but created new sound, and above all, faster beats.

But still it is imporant to remember. It was - in my book - SAW that made the evolution of eurobeat, with a "help" from the italo-disco people.

So conclusion, Eurobeat came alomst straight from eurodisco, who came from HI-nrg, who hade influence from both 70´s disco and soul.


Correct me if i am wrong


Hi,

To late this topic is already answered and my words confirmed by Laurent, just read it:

http://forum.eurobeat-prime.com/viewtopic.php?t=813

You are talking about the "other" Hi-NRG style the british because also was the Italian (late in the 80s) I'm talking about the Italo Hi-NRG.

Best regards,
Pol


Well, well. I have read this topic.

And i have a few opinions.

* Eurodisco is a very used word, and in my book wrongfully used many times. The word eurodisco was first connected to the sound of Stock Aitken Waterman, as far sa i am concerned.

* Italian Hi-nrg is not a own developed music. It is a copy of the sound of Stock Aitken and Waterman, so you can´t say that italien hi-nrg is an own developed music, because the influence from SAW is so obvious, and SAW ruled the hitlists in Europe in the time 87-91.
Italian HI-nrg had its time from 89-94 or something like that, so the time prove my these.

* Over the world many used the word eurobeat, when they were talking about SAW, but the truth is, that the term eurodisco seems to fit better.

Well i have my ideas, but the fact is, that you will get diffrent answers depending on who you´re asking, because there aren´t any correct definitions of what music that is eurodisco or not.

This is what i think.