Eurobeat Prime :: Forum

Last time Bonkers asked me what happened with bass in old Eurobeat tracks. Exactly why there isn't any good bass.

And till today I'm surprised and I couldn't find what is he talking about.

Due to the fact that I have quite nice audio devices and correct setting of speakers in my room, in front of me, after listening SEB Vol. 240 my question is the same:

Where is the bass or what they've done with mastering quality?

Such things aren't done deliberately. For worse.

I avoid digital formats, because I have many CDs to compare.

The anniversary mix of Vol. 240 is cutted in the bass parameter in terrible level. I wish to ask the real specjalist who has the own company and makes the audio mastering for european re-editions of Italo Disco, what he thinks about the SEB work quality.

But it's not about, how and who can make this depending on the publisher.

The same songs on Avex Trax CDs before 20- 15 years sound incredible good with the strong bass. Of course I heard A.Beat-C. tracks more times than another labels, but the same lack of bass is in the whole mix.

HONESTLY - who will say, that these songs sound originally? Who listened the original material released years ago? A.Beat-C., so much on the volume had in your opinion such flat, just knocking beat, instead of their flagship deep drums?

Hmmm...

The problem isn't the bass of the original tracks. It's this issue:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gmex_4hreQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcKDMBuGodU

And it has something to do with what you hear in every tracks. It affects every genre, not only rock and its subgenre.

Lebon14 wrote:The problem isn't the bass of the original tracks. It's this issue:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gmex_4hreQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcKDMBuGodU

And it has something to do with what you hear in every tracks. It affects every genre, not only rock and its subgenre.

Loudness war is nothing new.

In this case, mixed Vol. 240, which just came out in 2016 is louder, I agree, but in my ears in practise the overall quality is very different than CDs before 20-25 years ! Like they forgot about the rest parameters. Something what sounded clear and had strong bass so many years ago, seems to me to be destroyed here by mastering details.

Not each label pays attention on drums, it's their own idea how deep should that be, but looks like Avex Trax can change this element for all on the same level on newer CDs.

So experienced record company hasn't any workers known the professional audio mastering skipping loudness trends?

Ok, Crockett, let me try to explain what I was talking about on your post.

I have Super Eurobeat vol. 22, which came out in 1992. The volume is sooooo low on that CD, I have to turn it up twice as loud as other discs. This leads me to notice that some tracks, there is a bass, and other tracks are flat. Then, I notice Virginelle-Up & Down. It's loud, it's crisp, and it has a hard bass to it, and it's like, "Why aren't all the tracks from the same label this loud, crisp, and mastered nicely?"

This leads me to other 90s tracks: Some have great bass (ABeatC/Hi-NRG Attack, Vibration, 3B), and others seem to be just a flat snare drum (Time). Delta falls in the middle because some tracks were great, and some are sound like they are being played from inside a trashcan.

This issue has been talked about before, that it comes down to the mastering. I will say Eurobeat CDs have the most odd mastering....It's like, one volume sounds loud and crisp, then the next volume sounds cloudy.

In my personal opinion, Vol. 230 and Vol. 240 have been the BEST audio mastered volumes. Everything is crisp, clear, and it's like "Is this what the actual song has always sounded like? Even in the 90s? Or has it always been due to poor mastering?"

Bonkers wrote:*snip*

Turning up the volume knob IS what we're supposed to do!! Low dynamic range and compression is not solving this issue AT ALL. In fact, it's getting it worst. Asia is probably the single worst right now along with Sunfire. Long period of listening to listening to something this long is hard, it give headaches (in my case, my ear fatigue). It doesn't do that with mastering with a good dynamic range. I opened my eyes (more like "ears") when I actually listened to a non-brickwalled version of "Wind Of Change" by Scorpions. The drums sounded so good, so crisp...

As for the other elements: bass, bass drums, hit-hat, synth, etc. In the early days, it was all analog. So, if the label sent a DAT to Avex, they had to transfer it for a digital release. So, sometimes the quality of the source tape or transfer material might vary. And tehre are several sources too; that's a compilation. So, it's normal for things to not sound evenly.

So, turn that volume nob up and enjoying those nice kickdrums and hi-hats!

Lebon14 wrote:

Bonkers wrote:*snip*

As for the other elements: bass, bass drums, hit-hat, synth, etc. In the early days, it was all analog.

So, turn that volume nob up and enjoying those nice kickdrums and hi-hats!

Ya, it's the same thing with many Happy Hardcore albums in the 90s that were recorded from a vinyl mix as compared to digital mixes. The volume is always lower on those mixes.

Lebon14 wrote:

Bonkers wrote:*snip*

Turning up the volume knob IS what we're supposed to do!! Low dynamic range and compression is not solving this issue AT ALL. In fact, it's getting it worst. Asia is probably the single worst right now along with Sunfire. Long period of listening to listening to something this long is hard, it give headaches (in my case, my ear fatigue). It doesn't do that with mastering with a good dynamic range. I opened my eyes (more like "ears") when I actually listened to a non-brickwalled version of "Wind Of Change" by Scorpions. The drums sounded so good, so crisp...

As for the other elements: bass, bass drums, hit-hat, synth, etc. In the early days, it was all analog. So, if the label sent a DAT to Avex, they had to transfer it for a digital release. So, sometimes the quality of the source tape or transfer material might vary. And tehre are several sources too; that's a compilation. So, it's normal for things to not sound evenly.

So, turn that volume nob up and enjoying those nice kickdrums and hi-hats!

The one annoying thing about that is that if you wanna do a playlist on foobar or whatever you use; it sucks to keep bringing up the volume for older tracks and turning it down for newer. Like everyone has pointed out there is nothing to be done about this. It also happens to non eurobeat tracks. music will proboably get louder and louder with each coming year until we are all deaf.

Bonkers wrote:Ok, Crockett, let me try to explain what I was talking about on your post.

I have Super Eurobeat vol. 22, which came out in 1992. The volume is sooooo low on that CD, I have to turn it up twice as loud as other discs. This leads me to notice that some tracks, there is a bass, and other tracks are flat. Then, I notice Virginelle-Up & Down. It's loud, it's crisp, and it has a hard bass to it, and it's like, "Why aren't all the tracks from the same label this loud, crisp, and mastered nicely?"

This leads me to other 90s tracks: Some have great bass (ABeatC/Hi-NRG Attack, Vibration, 3B), and others seem to be just a flat snare drum (Time). Delta falls in the middle because some tracks were great, and some are sound like they are being played from inside a trashcan.

This issue has been talked about before, that it comes down to the mastering. I will say Eurobeat CDs have the most odd mastering....It's like, one volume sounds loud and crisp, then the next volume sounds cloudy.

In my personal opinion, Vol. 230 and Vol. 240 have been the BEST audio mastered volumes. Everything is crisp, clear, and it's like "Is this what the actual song has always sounded like? Even in the 90s? Or has it always been due to poor mastering?"

Yeah. You have to change the volume level on some CDs, whatever for example, to louder when they're from 80's ad 90's, or when the record company is different. This is how the CDs were pressed before loudness war. Actually no problem right? You have to use one knob.

I understand the explanation, but looks like it's your subjective lack of bass or its insufficient level, perchaps due to personal exceptations looking from 2016 to down, not up from 1988?

That's why I can't find what receive your ears.

SEB Vol. 22 is the summary, flashback of 1991. May be considered by fans with totally different exceptations, which like Eurobeat over 2000, 2005, 2010 as the most boring. Indeed, this part of Eurobeat music was based on the old italian standards, hated somewhere else.

However I agree, there was simple very similar backgroud, no effects, but that is the drums style which started in 1990 and finished in 1992. The pure old-school Hi-NRG called by Italo Disco fans by the word "energy".

Virginelle "Up & Down" is for you special? Possibly may be here some slight difference. The author was A. Leonardi without G. Pasquini. Whether Robert Stone has smaller bass? Kill me, I can't feel it. These all tracks have "magic" thanks to the high beat level on the quite naked arrangement.

Later the scheme of drums was changed but before the loudness war, also in 2000, Avex Trax, another record companies hadn't such troubles on original CDs, which I heard on SEB Vol. 240.

The bass which demolished my walls all the decade before 2000, on the latest mix knocking like inside some cardboard box. I'm not specjalist, but too much I compared. Neither mastering due to the natural CD loudness and the year of publishing, no matter who pressed a disc, wasn't before so muffled.

We can analize this next day and express our feelings, but I never supposed what will happen with the former genious sound, when I will decide to buy new Avex Trax release.

I have no money for hyper expensive collectable rare old records and parallel news, but I will revise my willingness, whether buy Vol. 241.

SUPER EUROBEAT VOL.240 UNOFFICIAL!!!

Actually when it comes to the mastering of seb 240, it seems a bit quieter compared to earlyer recent seb albums. That's not a bad thing.
I also need to write here that the mixing of the 2 cd's is really good.
Some transisions doesn't Always work when it comes to the key, for example track 7 on cd 2.
There you hear the Acapella vocal from next track Get somebody to love him, slapped on top of Different girl, key of the next vocal is different than the Music so that part doesn't work so well.
Favorite part though on cd2 is from track 39 til the end, the flow between many of those tracks works really well.
Especially from Hurry Hurry Hurry to Shalaka Boom to Wacky Wacky oh, love those tracks as a nice highlight on the cd.

djtt wrote: There you hear the Acapella vocal from next track Get somebody to love him, slapped on top of Different girl, key of the next vocal is different than the Music so that part doesn't work so well.
.

Actually, the fact that it sounds so odd is the reason I love that transition trick.

You need to listen to this transition from a Happy Hardcore album I own.
(listen to the end)

https://youtu.be/fekmmgMG-58?t=2m8s

And this one!!
https://youtu.be/cvOH0UbvyBU?t=2m9s

I guess I'm a bit picky with mixing since I'm into key mixing and mashups myself, also, wow those old bonkers cd's were probably mixed all on vinyl from what I can hear.

djtt wrote:I guess I'm a bit picky with mixing since I'm into key mixing and mashups myself, also, wow those old bonkers cd's were probably mixed all on vinyl from what I can hear.

Only Bonkers vol. 1 was, and the Hixxy Mix (CD 1) was mixed on 3 decks, so at some points, you have 3 songs playing at once.

I listened to 240 several times now.
The tracklist already looked good, but it also sounded good!
It's a good way avex is at and I hope they stay at that. CD 1 with (underrated9 classics, not the same songs all over again: no Try Me, no Dark In The Night, ... They even put out Night Of Fire and Yesterday, but okay, they are the album's signature remixes.
Speaking of that, I was very excited to listen to those EDM remixes. While Yesterday sounded like an actual EDM hit (though I think most of them sound too similar), Night Of Fire had a strong Hardstyle vibe. I enjoy both remixes, more Yesterday rather than Night Of Fire, but in my opinion, those remixes are well-made. As we can see, most of us here don't like that genre, but I think it brings a little diversity in here. I think, remixes are way more difficult to make in another genre than mixing a Eurobeat song into a new Eurobeat song which is a bit longer.

Well, the transitions were well-made in general. There were some without creativity which just jumped into the next song and there were really good ones.
For example: Made In Japan > When I Close My Eyes > Money Go! or Dragostea Din Tei > Monkey Dance '09.

All in all, the wait was worth it. 240 has good chances to become my favorite anniversary by now. Let's see what 250 brings up.

KiraTM wrote: Well, the transitions were well-made in general. There were some without creativity which just jumped into the next song and there were really good ones.
For example: Made In Japan > When I Close My Eyes > Money Go! or Dragostea Din Tei > Monkey Dance '09.

All in all, the wait was worth it. 240 has good chances to become my favorite anniversary by now. Let's see what 250 brings up.

Was "Dragostea Din tie" ; one, that O-zone version or the Haiduccii version? I always prefered Haiducii's version for her vocals. I didn't care for that Eurobeat remix from TIME either.