Eurobeat Prime :: Forum

oresama-chan wrote:

Vadim wrote: that takasu clinic is one hip place. they play Newfield new-pwl tunes, dance,sing,do the dj-ing,and then they do the plastic surgery on very respectable looking gentlemen in expensive suits.

That CM is encouraging Japanese males to get their foreskin cut off by them
like, "If you wanna become a winner in your life, why don't you get your
cock clipped?"

http://www.circlist.com/rites/japan.html

Might wanna NSFW that link.

And is the irony of using that song in particular lost on them? XD

I've never noticed that irony. *pugera*

Vadim wrote:

UQ100 wrote:There is nothing really innovative in music, after all, at its core today's music is still based off Bach and Beethoven, what we like to hear is already discovered.

Eurobeat/Hi Nrg is part of a greater pop,and faithfully runs on that done'n'tried pop formula. What makes it so like exciting is the speed,energy,sound which move away from banality of contemporary realms into a different territory.

There are many ways to create energy, but all music works on the principles of running through tension/resolution to drag things along. (Tension can soon be understood by watching a "scary movie" and listening to a tense sound (chord) that keeps you on edge.) For this and other reasons (syncopation/anticipation, for instance) there is plenty of energy in a well written song. With the right arrangement you get an energetic result, with a bad one it falls flat, but simply having high bpm and hoping for energy gets you nowhere.

There are many "popular" (!=pop) songs today that are either badly written, or intentionally written not to be uplifting, ever since music for fun became "uncool".

Vadim wrote: I actually love the idea of having trance melodies put into classic eurobeat arrangements(think SCP girl tunes!)

You mean stuff like Pamsy?

Vadim wrote:

UQ100 wrote: Most important thing to me, though, is a high quality song and production.

To me it's enough when producer can arrange and mix well enough to give a listener a very enjoyable arrangement and mix.
A little bit of something trancy or poppy isn't a problem,an obvious identity crisis is in progress for a HN/EB genre when records sound too much like trance or happy hardcore.

I think styles can be as much about values as anything, Eurobeat obviously differs in values from many other dance styles which came out of "DJ culture". If you copy those styles exactly, or don't integrate any "borrowed" parts, then you lose or dilute your own values and fail to differentiate from other styles.

Vadim wrote:Commercialism it'z. Dance music is not rocket science, it's a low budget way of production, any way u look at it.

High quality dance music may be no easier than most other styles of music, it may even be harder than most. Obviously costs are cut to the bone by using sequencing, looping over parts/vocals, and avoiding use of session musicians to the maximum possible extent (guitars?). However done properly it can exceed the quality much other music, at their peak SAW for instance managed high quality songwriting and production/arrangement quality on a consistent basis.

IMO the optimal commercial value is producing high quality music in volume at low cost. I don't think there is much commercial value to poor quality music and spending a fortune on marketing to sell, that's inefficient, but maybe some record companies don't get it. Certainly the major record companies have made a total mess of things to the point of destroying good music. (Since to them apparently entertaining music is crap anyway.)

Vadim wrote:When japanese labels want typical eurobeat to sound like million backs big american label production suites,it gets nothing short of rediculous.

They do...?

oresama-chan wrote:

what are typical tv spots where EB is played?

Kevin Johnson - Don't say Goodbye
http://www.takasu.co.jp/bb/tvcm/mov/yes_live/64_1.wvx

Watching that makes me think, maybe Eurobeat gets away with "virtual" vocalists due to the acceptance of karaoke in Japan?

Just a thought.

UQ100 wrote:Watching that makes me think, maybe Eurobeat gets away with "virtual" vocalists due to the acceptance of karaoke in Japan?

Well, I don't think so 'cause it was not until late 90’s diffusion of Internet
that we got to know most of them were virtual. Even today the situation
is such that no information on eurobeat artists can obtain from anywhere
other than INET or if any (on SEB booklets), they are quite often false,
therefore eurobeat bunnies and average listners who aren't get involved
in this music still believe that Valentina on A-Beat C is Barbara Maniscalch
and Macho Gang is composed of the trinity of Vanessa, Mara and Monica.

As you know, it's not been vocalists but songs themselves (or I would
say producers) that are to be taken notice of in this genre, so it's not been
very important whoever sings it (of course good vocalists are required,
though) when no reference to the artist is found, I guess.

If Ricky Martin should sing some eurobeat song, I'll no doubt more into
the song. That's true enough but...

Ricky Martin actually has a pretty nice voice. He can sing in a low tone if desired. I don't think we could recognize his voice of the top. Mainly because we never think he would sing Eurobeat, but remember back in 1986 when even Elton John released a 12' of "I Don't Wanna Go On Like That" It had a very evident SAW sound.
....So if even Ricky Martin would do vocals for a Eurobeat song Produced at say ABeatC or TIME and the production was graet, I would not discriminate.

oresama-chan wrote:

UQ100 wrote:Watching that makes me think, maybe Eurobeat gets away with "virtual" vocalists due to the acceptance of karaoke in Japan?

Well, I don't think so 'cause it was not until late 90’s diffusion of Internet
that we got to know most of them were virtual. Even today the situation
is such that no information on eurobeat artists can obtain from anywhere
other than INET or if any (on SEB booklets), they are quite often false,
therefore eurobeat bunnies and average listners who aren't get involved
in this music still believe that Valentina on A-Beat C is Barbara Maniscalch
and Macho Gang is composed of the trinity of Vanessa, Mara and Monica.

Hmm, interesting. Well, I'm curious as to how this sort of thing is accepted in Japan. Ever since Milli Vanilli, it seems that not singing your own song is unacceptable in the "West". So even the slightest whiff of "virtual artists" would presumably be a PR disaster here, if not worse. (Class action lawsuit coming your way?)

Are there genres other than Eurobeat where this practice occurs?

If Ricky Martin should sing some eurobeat song, I'll no doubt more into the song. That's true enough but...

LOL, as long as Latin American sounds aren't added.

drnrg wrote: Ricky Martin actually has a pretty nice voice. He can sing in a low tone if desired. I don't think we could recognize his voice of the top. Mainly because we never think he would sing Eurobeat, but remember back in 1986 when even Elton John released a 12' of "I Don't Wanna Go On Like That" It had a very evident SAW sound.

Really? In 1986?! Who was responsible for that?

UQ100 wrote:Hmm, interesting. Well, I'm curious as to how this sort of thing is accepted in Japan.

I don't think that is peculiar to Japanese. The ppl on this forum are actually
accept it, eh? Also you can't compare eurobeat virtual artists with Milli Vanilli
cuz Milli Vanilli lip-synced but Edo Arlenghi (Niko) and Michele Vanni (Maio
& Co.) sang on stage by themselves in spite of the difference in voice.

Are there genres other than Eurobeat where this practice occurs?

Anime characters might be kin to them.

UQ100 wrote:Are there genres other than Eurobeat where this practice occurs?

E-Rotic, they "changed" the rapper a few times yet the voice is still exactly the same. But when they performed live the rapper rapped live... kinda like Niko & Maio & Co.

Jayveemon wrote:

UQ100 wrote:Are there genres other than Eurobeat where this practice occurs?

E-Rotic, they "changed" the rapper a few times yet the voice is still exactly the same. But when they performed live the rapper rapped live... kinda like Niko & Maio & Co.

Didn't E-Rotic do the same thing with the main vocalist too? I remember reading how the original vocalist was tied into a recording contract, but not a performance, so they had someone else sing for live performances while the original singer did the recordings.

E-Rotic went through 4 female singers and you can tell when you listen to tracks from different time periods (Listen to Oh Nick Please Not So Quick or Turn Me On and then listen to Max Don't Have Sex With Your Ex) And yeah probably maybe you example happened until the contract expired. But for the male rapper it has been the same vocalist (David Brandes himself I believe did the rap) but changed persona through out their entire 10 year run, for females bout image and vocals have changed (not always at the same time though) Also one of the E-Rotic vocalist went on to be the original Missing Heart which is why there is some confusion when it comes to Missing Heart tracks at times.

oresama-chan wrote:

UQ100 wrote:Hmm, interesting. Well, I'm curious as to how this sort of thing is accepted in Japan.

I don't think that is peculiar to Japanese. The ppl on this forum are actually
accept it, eh?

True, but not on any large scale. I personally think it is the best way to create volumes of good music.

Also you can't compare eurobeat virtual artists with Milli Vanilli
cuz Milli Vanilli lip-synced but Edo Arlenghi (Niko) and Michele Vanni (Maio
& Co.) sang on stage by themselves in spite of the difference in voice.

LOL... so, no lip-synching in Eurobeat today?

I guess not exactly the same as Milli Vanilli, but it seems today the idealization in the "West" is of a band or "singer-songwriter" that writes and plays their own material. Otherwise those who are "just" singers are at risk of being called a "puppet" or something. So I just wonder if that is also held as an ideal in Japan. But I guess since you say many would not be aware of the "virtual singer" situation, Eurobeat is just an exception.

Jayveemon wrote:E-Rotic, they "changed" the rapper a few times yet the voice is still exactly the same. But when they performed live the rapper rapped live... kinda like Niko & Maio & Co.

E-Rotic, eh? Sounds like a class act.

UQ100 wrote:

Jayveemon wrote:E-Rotic, they "changed" the rapper a few times yet the voice is still exactly the same. But when they performed live the rapper rapped live... kinda like Niko & Maio & Co.

E-Rotic, eh? Sounds like a class act.

You should see some of their music videos. (some are on youtube. NSFW is very strongly implied.)