Time, Time SPA, and Eurogroove

[zoupzuop2]

I heard zupzoup bought 2000 copies of Popteen, so he could retile his bathrooms with japanese girls in bikinis...

Who's zupzoup? Sounds like a crooked fellow, unlike that zoupzuop2. ;3

[para_rigby]

Methinks that Newfield isn't very happy with Avex either at the moment (see Facebook status). Now things are starting to connect as to why Time had Time SPA and Newfield has Akyr. Musical freedom.

[zoupzuop2]

Methinks that Newfield isn't very happy with Avex either at the moment (see Facebook status). Now things are starting to connect as to why Time had Time SPA and Newfield has Akyr. Musical freedom.

Yeah... I've seldom seen him (his text, more, aheheh) that upset. If it's as bad as I have heard it is (if I'm not mistaken, Avex representatives have asked DJs to stop playing Akyr songs... what kind of sneaky bullcrap is THAT?), then imagine how it is for labels not doing as well off as Delta/Akyr.

If that's the case, I'm beginning to wonder if the death of SEB would be so bad, if it meant a more free-reign compilation would take its place and Avex would realize that they do NOT have a monopoly on Eurobeat.

[Will154]

If that's the case, I'm beginning to wonder if the death of SEB would be so bad, if it meant a more free-reign compilation would take its place and Avex would realize that they do NOT have a monopoly on Eurobeat.

Agreed. Actually , I think Eurobeat labels should make a compilation of their own. Now we would really hear what ABeatC has to offer , since I am pretty sure that the reason why we are not getting good agressive ABeatC riffs anymore is because of Avex.

[para_rigby]

Agreed. Actually , I think Eurobeat labels should make a compilation of their own. Now we would really hear what ABeatC has to offer , since I am pretty sure that the reason why we are not getting good agressive ABeatC riffs anymore is because of Avex.

Interesting idea. Was that you that mentioned it on Newfield's facebook wall. I think it's grand. Think of all the interesting music we could hear from HI-NRG ATTACK (slower or more experimental) or unreleased music from the former TIME label.

I think it's douchebaggery that AVEX staff wants DJs to stop playing Akyr music at the clubs.

[Will154]

No it's not me who wrote that XD...(i think its MesdoramElmdor who wrote it)
But still a lot of people have this dream in mind

Yeah , and I think that it's a shame Avex destroyed Akyr music that was doing very well...Hoping they can continue in the future in other clubs. (Maybe with StarFire since it's not Avex-Related ?)

[zoupzuop2]

douchebaggery

I think I'm going to just have to steal this word.

Back to the point, the only problem is, if all the labels pulled together, inevitably they'd all want to dominate; if a label's HOSTING the others, even more so. For instance, if SAIFAM, being the large entity they are, decided to group ALLLLLL the labels together for an 18-track Extended Eurobeat compilation... how would they work it out that Saifam doesn't get 9 tracks to themselves?
The solution to that is to find another outside entity like Warner or EMI, but who knows how long it'd take before THEY became like Avex and demanded stupid things from the labels? Also, some labels are already bound to Avex; SinclaireStyle, SCP, HRG, GGM, ABeatC (possibly Eurogrooves)... How would we hear their music if they didn't break their contracts with Avex and risk HUUUUUGE lawsuits (as much as I don't think it'd make sense, you can sue for anything these days...), unless it were under Avex to begin with?

Unless a third party can be found, or if they all agree to a pre-set number of tracks per album (most likely the same for each label), then we'd have a good foundation to give Avex something to worry about.

EDITED on December 9th... tbh I posted in a good deal of anger. I may not agree with how Avex does business, but I doubt they're twirling their mustaches and plotting how to be cruel or something. I'm just not fond of their tactics.

[MesdoramElmdor]

Yeah, I actually posted that just because I honestly think they should. Newfield talks about so many tracks of his that get turned down by Avex for no reason at all. I think all the producers should have the freedom to make what the want. Matteo Rizzi actually posted something about musical freedom in response to that comment that I really agree with. With Avex telling you what they want we'll just keep getting the same material. Screw Avex. The labels have enough power that they can make their own Comp. and sell it to a Japanese market.

[zoupzuop2]

To any Avex representative who may potentially be viewing this thread:

No labels have made a move to cease whatever contracts or bindings they may have with you (much to our collective shock), as far as we know. This is a discussion that we as fans are having in regards to how much you have ignored your Eurobeat labels' creative control and decimated the quality of a genre you once held dear.

Too long, didn't read? WE'RE NOT HAPPY. GIVE LABELS THEIR CREATIVE CONTROL. NONE OF THIS "DO YOUR SONGS THIS WAY" BULLCRAP.

[Densetsu13]

Yeah , and I think that it's a shame Avex destroyed Akyr music that was doing very well...Hoping they can continue in the future in other clubs. (Maybe with StarFire since it's not Avex-Related ?)

This is the first I hear of avex asking the clubs to stop playing Akyr tracks, and if it's true, it's freaking ridiculous.

Keep in mind Will that the majority (if not all) of Akyr tracks are Star Fire choreographies. Therefore if avex is indeed asking the clubs to stop giving Akyr songs airtime they probably went to the organizers of Star Fire first...

Avex be pullin' some REAL BS here with this one

Oh and Star Fire does indeed have ties to avex.

[Humbedooh]

From my humble and almost non-academic point of view (or, as non-academic as I can get), Avex' behavior seems to be an only too classic case of best practice versus best fit.

In Avex' case, they seem to have a best practice perspective on their human resources (the labels), meaning that they view what to do and what not to do as something that applies universally to all. With respect to this, they view themselves as a Japanese company, selling music primarily to Japanese people, and thus they assume that this should be dealt by in a Japanese way. What Avex doesn't seem to fully grasp (or maybe they're psychopaths, it happens occasionally with company managements) is that not alone is their primary human resource not Japanese, but neither is their product nor the fabrication of it.

Eurobeat is Italian, it has its energy, its flaws, its "soundworld" from Italy, and unless you start treating the labels as Italian (or rather, European) labels, you'll end up with the mess that seems to be building up. This doesn't mean that Avex is intentionally trying to manipulate or control the labels, but perhaps rather that they are just incompetent or naive - much like European companies moving to Asia often ends in a disaster because of the different ways of interacting in the Asian business life.

Regardless, I'd personally be thrilled to actually see some competition on the Eurobeat stage. To see people competing to make that "10+++" song - to use a Bore reference - and not just get 3-4 songs on an album because they mingle with the top brass or bow down to their every desire, that would be something I'd consider buying into.

Edit: More than anything, this shows that Avex' biggest problem isn't unsatisfied labels....it's that when the trouble starts stirring, the community takes the side of the labels~

[zoupzuop2]

From my humble and almost non-academic point of view (or, as non-academic as I can get), Avex' behavior seems to be an only too classic case of best practice versus best fit.

In Avex' case, they seem to have a best practice perspective on their human resources (the labels), meaning that they view what to do and what not to do as something that applies universally to all. With respect to this, they view themselves as a Japanese company, selling music primarily to Japanese people, and thus they assume that this should be dealt by in a Japanese way. What Avex doesn't seem to fully grasp (or maybe they're psychopaths, it happens occasionally with company managements) is that not alone is their primary human resource not Japanese, but neither is their product nor the fabrication of it.

Eurobeat is Italian, it has its energy, its flaws, its "soundworld" from Italy, and unless you start treating the labels as Italian (or rather, European) labels, you'll end up with the mess that seems to be building up. This doesn't mean that Avex is intentionally trying to manipulate or control the labels, but perhaps rather that they are just incompetent or naive - much like European companies moving to Asia often ends in a disaster because of the different ways of interacting in the Asian business life.

Regardless, I'd personally be thrilled to actually see some competition on the Eurobeat stage. To see people competing to make that "10+++" song - to use a Bore reference - and not just get 3-4 songs on an album because they mingle with the top brass or bow down to their every desire, that would be something I'd consider buying into.

Edit: More than anything, this shows that Avex' biggest problem isn't unsatisfied labels....it's that when the trouble starts stirring, the community takes the side of the labels~

That's a possibility, but is it really feasible that after more than 10 years they STILL don't do things right? I would imagine they make visits to these labels a little more than once a year? Either the labels are just persistent, then, or Avex IS beginning to encroach.

I could at least guess why Avex would want specific sounds from specific labels; if they've seen something sell well in the past, they want to replicate that and make MORE of what sells well, right? Perhaps they've seen silly Hi-NRG Attack songs sell well, soft/fluffy Sinclaire soundworlds sell well, minor-key Delta songs sell well, middle-rate ABeatC songs sell well, and so on.

So why not? The answer is this: FORCING A FORMULA FAILS TO ALLOW NEW HITS TO SHINE THROUGH! Who knows if the next "Night of Fire" could have been written, were it not for requirements and specifications down to the slightest crossings of the letter "T"?

Besides. Avex saw that Akyr was selling well; instead of shutting it down, why on EARTH wouldn't they ask for more of that?

[Humbedooh]

You'd be surprised how stupid some companies can be, and how ruthless the Japanese business culture can seem. The LEAN culture didn't get invented in Japan purely by accident - it's an accepted tradition to virtually tie employees and affiliates to slavery-like conditions and specialize them to such a degree, that they can't operate outside the company with the qualifications they have acquired, nor hold any significant grounds when discussing their future dealings with the company.

In many ways, it's worked perfectly for Japan, but it's also created huge distortions as you can see when people still live with their parents till they are in their mid-30's, sleep in tiny compartments at the train stations, get demoted instead of promoted as they get older and relying on bizarre and warped and overshadowing entertainment systems to keep people from going totally bonkers.

Forcing formulas onto labels makes them and us grumpy, but it also strengthens Avex' hold over the labels and increases their flexibility in terms of meeting the demands of the markets. If the market wants more Hi-NRG, they know exactly where to turn up the production, and if the market wants less, Hi-NRG has very little to say because they only specialize in this field and thus can't pose a threat to the rest of the production nor go somewhere else and do something new right away.

The monopoly that Avex practically has on the Eurobeat market just further emphasizes this. If there was some form of competition, the hold-up effect (labels not being able to use their expertice elsewhere) would be lessened, and Avex would have to go into a dialogue instead of a monologue. So here's hoping for a competitor, so we can get some creativity.

[drnrg]

Some of the most recent examples of how AVEX controles the style of the labels would be the latest HRG Attack releses on Juno. While some songs are the usual Driving theme of hyped female style, many tracks on those cds showcased the many different styles HRG has to offer. Even tracks like Fast Cars in My Dream; though having the driving theme, actually plays thier synths in different style. One style I really miss from HRG is the trumpet sounding synths.

I havn't heard the artists collections on i-tunes, but I'm sure that a fewe songs on there break from the norm of SEB usual style.

Someone mentioned the end of SEB. While I'm totally against that thought 100%, I wouldn't mind the rebirth of say a series like Eurobeat Flash or Euromach. Extendeds of course. Those series had a sound so far away form the SEB norm, that made them sound refreshing and really stand out.


I also doidn't know about Akyr getting the shaft, but that settles it. AVEX are some powerful dicks!

[Javy]

Is Avex just very picky on how a certain label should sound on the SEB series?

As a side note, I'm not knowledgable about music jargon, but I believe someone noted that Avex wants Delta to do songs only in minor key? Any musical, aesthetic reason for this?

Yes, that was me, and I'm not sure why. Probably the same reason they ask for all the estrogen from the Sinclaire camp and all the pitched vocals

Actually Sinclairestyle's all female track list till not had nothing to do with Avex. He just felt like producing female tracks but he assured me he created some new male tracks to be released soon.