Super Eurobeat Vol. 168

Jion · Post by **Jion** » 11 Jun 2006, 05:40

Gwen sold out but she's massively popular which can't be denied. A lot of artists do that simply to get over. It's every artists goal to reach the top and Gwen definately went straight to it. It's not exactly selling out if you get what you want. And who knows, maybe it's the path Gwen wanted. She can't just do the same old same old that the regular fan wants. Wouldn't she be selling out in essence too; by offering only what the fans wanted rather that what she'd like? She took a chance and it paid off massively for her.

drnrg · Post by **drnrg** » 11 Jun 2006, 07:20

I totally disagree with you. Just look at Green Day...They have been following the same formatt for almost 15+ years and finally last year it paid off HUGE with thier American Idiot cd(A great cd for punk/POP)....and I must add they have achieved what Gwen probobly never will... Cd of the year, Comeback of the year...and Rock single of the year!
To top it off even her significant other (lead singer of ALT. Rck Band Bush) stated in an interview that she sold out! I don't even know if they are still an item. ...and you must admit her music sounds like "wannabe rejected cheerleader crap"

I'm so mean

I would 100x prefer a song like "Don't Speak"

redtarzanboi wrote

Wouldn't she be selling out in essence too; by offering only what the fans wanted rather that what she'd like?

That is just the point. Eurobeat is popular in a small audience, but a loyal small audience and rather keep it relatively unknown, instead of selling out to the general public. That is what keep it alive , yet fresh sounding every 5-10 years.

Vadim · Post by **Vadim** » 11 Jun 2006, 07:21

She can't just do the same old same old that the regular fan wants.

No point to make music for ppl,when big ass labels pay so much better.
In America,all high charting music is made by and for labels,not for fans.
So, either be consuming mass culture with no individuality whatsoever,
or choose a rebelion and import eurobeat from Japan to your cd player.

Wouldn't she be selling out in essence too;

if publicity and wealth generation is the the only purpose of making music,
then perhaps saying that someone sells out isn't too far from the truth.

by offering only what the fans wanted rather that what she'd like? She took a chance and it paid off massively for her.

she has a very overblown commercial sound, and she is a manufactured act,like many others.

Vadim · Post by **Vadim** » 11 Jun 2006, 07:38

That is just the point. Eurobeat is popular in a small audience, but a loyal small audience and rather keep it relatively unknown, instead of selling out to the general public. That is what keep it alive , yet fresh sounding every 5-10 years.

Loyal audience for eurobeat is certainly present on this forum,but
the audience that makes up 99% of sales is not what u would call
eurobeat-exclusive. They keep loosing interest in EB,and this is when sales drop. Fresh sound is not something that happens in current EB.
I have an impression that eurobeat producers have no idea what audience they make EB for,exactly. It's always the Avex -producer relationship that comes on top. EB is a greenhouse music,basically.
That's why I believe that expansion of a genre is a key,not keeping whole biz in a few basements situated amid scenic italian countryside.
Saying that,I love the stuff that comes out of those basements and desire
for this particular flow to be forever. It's just..more is better..less is worse.

UQ100 · Post by **UQ100** » 11 Jun 2006, 10:29

vadim wrote:No point to make music for ppl,when big ass labels pay so much better. In America,all high charting music is made by and for labels,not for fans.
So, either be consuming mass culture with no individuality whatsoever, or choose a rebelion and import eurobeat from Japan to your cd player.

Well, I don't care for rebellion or anything, I just buy whatever is good. Right now, big labels don't release much good, so I don't buy their product. All (properly run) businesses create products they customer wants, that's why a supermarket has 10,000s of lines, but if it was the music business then someone would come along and remove all the hamburgers and ice creams because they consider them bad (or due to internal politics or whatever else is going on.)

vadim wrote:if publicity and wealth generation is the the only purpose of making music,
then perhaps saying that someone sells out isn't too far from the truth.

Profits are surely the purpose of a business. But in truth, there are many reasons businesses exist, and many reasons people get out of bed in the morning. I think best music is created by those who at least somewhat inspired by it, but maybe some do a good job anyway.

However, music business not a very good one right now, maybe that's changing as they catch up with the Internet.

vadim wrote:she has a very overblown commercial sound, and she is a manufactured act,like many others

Well, it could be said all of Hi-NRG/Eurobeat and related styles are a totally overblown commercial sound. Maybe it doesn't sell today, but it's not avant-garde.

As for manufactured and sell-out, this is the music business. In fact manufactured produces great results, if you go back you find places with dedicated songwriters like Tin Pan Alley, Brill Building, Motown, PWL, that churned out nice music. Music industry made a whole mess of this, only place I know of where this exists now on a really large scale is Nashville. (But I don't want to listen to country music!)

You will find no shortage of junk on MySpace from those who didn't "sell out," the term almost certainly comes from anti-capitalist people or inferior talents jealous of commercial success. If you agree that's fine, but it helps to at least know where terms come from, because "sell out" and anti-commericalism surely was used to destroy Hi-NRG at the end of the 80's. Then you end up with Nirvana or "DJ culture" crap.

Put it another way, Eurobeat is created for commercial reasons, the fact it doesn't sell by the truckload these days doesn't change this as one of the motivations.

UQ100 · Post by **UQ100** » 11 Jun 2006, 10:37

Vadim wrote:I have an impression that eurobeat producers have no idea what audience they make EB for,exactly. It's always the Avex -producer relationship that comes on top.

Well, that's fine, as long as Avex know what they're doing and give feedback. Sometimes, I wonder if everyone's just seeing out contracts, but we'll see.

That's why I believe that expansion of a genre is a key,not keeping whole biz in a few basements situated amid scenic italian countryside.

It's important in the long run also, but in the current climate, seems tough.

I like to think that at some point it will become feasible to market that type of sound on a large scale again (with lower bpm), but maybe I'm nuts and the mass market (in the "West"?) really doesn't want to ever hear it again.

UQ100 · Post by **UQ100** » 11 Jun 2006, 15:21

drnrg wrote:Examples taken from Hi-NRG Charts: pet Shop Boys,Mike Mareen,Erasure,Flirts,Fun Fun and even speeded up Freestyle(Expose) and Italo (Dharma-Plastic Doll) were concidered Hi-NRG. Ironically KPWR .KIIS F.M, and KROQ all played these artist at one time or another before they became "UNCOOL"

Yeah, I read the other day that Pet Shop Boys worked with Hi-NRG guy Bobby O. in the early days.

You only had to turn on the radio in the 80's, there was so much good music.

drnrg wrote:Even artist like Gwen Stephanie, who had a fairly decent group with No Doubt has sold out horribly....and as I allready mentioned most of todays pop is full of Sampled over hits from yesterday mush.

Well, I agree that is garbage quality. Music by collage (sampling) is a total nonsense. Of course you find Gwen Stefani worked with the likes of crap producers such as Pharrell Williams.

drnrg wrote:It is really sad, but if any of you ever look at top 40 charts, You will see the same names week after week.

It's sad that it's rubbish!

drnrg wrote:
uq100 wrote: you won't find anything that sounds like 80's melodic rock today ("Eye of the Tiger")
Actually Survivor, Warrant, Poison, Duran Duran and even the Cars have regrouped and named themselves the New Cars. All these bands have been relesing music. Some still chart and are concidered cool, like Duran Duran, Def Leppard and Bon Jovi, but sadly for others can't even break the top 100.

I heard about the Cars and of course Duran Duran, but otherwise, really? I gotta check that stuff out then. I don't really call all of that melodic rock though, e.g., Bon Jovi = hair metal, though either way I liked their stuff. (And er... Def Leppard are considered cool? That's news to me...)

drnrg · Post by **drnrg** » 12 Jun 2006, 05:59

UQ100 wrote

(And er... Def Leppard are considered cool? That's news to me...)

Cool! I get to defend my favorite rock band of allTIME!

hell yes! They are cool. Just released thier 12th cd "Yeah" it's a compilation of Rock remakes from the late 60's to 70's. Included are The David Essex hit "Rock ON"(yes thier was an original David Essex that is why Delta changed to D-Essex) Also is "No Matter What" Ala Def Leppard style. They were just on Jay Leno. ..and are on Rock on the net charts webpage. As well as on Alt, AOR, and Rock/Pop charts. Of course the cd has only reached #8 on Billboard, but it is Top 10. The singles on the other hand(sadly) will not become top 10. Poison, Warrant ,Bonjovi, and Survivor all have top 100 billboard cds out now. Poison was also on Jay leno. They performed "Nothing, But A Good Time" and the New Cars were on Conan.

I guess you can tell that next to Eurobeat, I'm A Rocker

...but Rock format never changes if it did it just wouldn't be Rock.

I think All the lables are puting thier part in keeping Eurobeat fresh. here is what I hear

1. Delta- Retro Disco SAW style, Slowewr bpms.
2. TIME- Remakes of thier Past hits Ala Eurobeat and A little retro Disco eg. Phil
3. SCP- adds little transe effex to thier songs(I do not like this) and sample Christina Aguilera .eg. "intro of "My Wish"
4. Saifam- Nothing. Just thier return is FRESH.
5. AbeatC- Pumping out superfast music. eg. Manuel"Sun In The Rain"(Excellent)
6. HRG Attack- Nothing! but who cares I Love them anyway!

Vadim · Post by **Vadim** » 12 Jun 2006, 06:34

I think All the lables are puting thier part in keeping Eurobeat fresh. here is what I hear

1. Delta- Retro Disco SAW style, Slowewr bpms.
2. TIME- Remakes of thier Past hits Ala Eurobeat and A little retro Disco eg. Phil
3. SCP- adds little transe effex to thier songs(I do not like this) and sample Christina Aguilera .eg. "intro of "My Wish"
4. Saifam- Nothing. Just thier return is FRESH.
5. AbeatC- Pumping out superfast music. eg. Manuel"Sun In The Rain"(Excellent)
6. HRG Attack- Nothing! but who cares I Love them anyway!

Basically changes are merely cosmetic, or sounds just taken straight out of unrelated music genres. I mean why not something that is something
completely different?( remember M.P. Flying Circus?).
What I mean is a product of a different hi nrgetic know-how that evolved
ín other nations of Europe.
Problem is not seeing a light at the end of a tunnel.
Europe is just hopeless for this sort of music. Only Asia can support
EB, but things have to change there first for eurobeat-change to blow over.Importing new Hi nrg is important cause it could give the eurobeat a shot in the arm in view of sales declining and many compilations being cancelled. Let's hope for success of Newfield's Universal debute,maybe it will have to set the stage for further changes..?

UQ100 · Post by **UQ100** » 12 Jun 2006, 13:52

drnrg wrote:UQ100 wrote
(And er... Def Leppard are considered cool? That's news to me...)
Cool! I get to defend my favorite rock band of allTIME!

Hey, I never said they sucked... just that they aren't seen as cool! I used to listen to them all the time.

If I cared for what was cool I surely would never listen to Eurobeat, but any band that sings "Don't call me gigolo, don't call me Casanova/Just call me on the phone and baby call me over" surely forfeited all claims to being cool!

drnrg wrote:Poison, Warrant ,Bonjovi, and Survivor all have top 100 billboard cds out now. Poison was also on Jay leno.

Hmm, well, maybe rock isn't going down the plughole after all.

drnrg wrote:I guess you can tell that next to Eurobeat, I'm A Rocker ...but Rock format never changes if it did it just wouldn't be Rock.

I like rock too, Gn'R, Bon Jovi, 80's melodic rock (Survivor), etc., haven't heard so much good stuff recently though.

P.S. If you like Survivor then check out Pride of Lions, ex- and founding member Jim Peterik's band, http://www.aprideoflions.com/, some of their stuff is exactly the same style!

UQ100 · Post by **UQ100** » 12 Jun 2006, 14:10

vadim wrote:Problem is not seeing a light at the end of a tunnel. Europe is just hopeless for this sort of music.

I think you are almost certainly right, but by now there is a new generation who forgot the destruction of Hi-NRG at the end of the 80's, the joke that SAW became, etc., and 80's sounds are getting incorporated into new material, Madonna's "Hung Up" and so on, these things sound like a bad pastiche (and are actually badly written songs) but surely someone could do it right and show how it's done! And Erasure and Pet Shop Boys have new stuff out as well. Hi-NRG or not though something needs to be done in Europe because there is too much bad music today, IMO.

EDIT: Oh, and I forgot: "You Spin Me Round" got a re-release this year. Granted, it's due to Pete Burns appearing on "Celebrity Big Brother," but still.

vadim wrote:Only Asia can support EB, but things have to change there first for eurobeat-change to blow over.Importing new Hi nrg is important cause it could give the eurobeat a shot in the arm in view of sales declining and many compilations being cancelled. Let's hope for success of Newfield's Universal debute,maybe it will have to set the stage for further changes..?

Question is if there is still any level of demand for this type of sound, and if it reached any kind of "super uncool" status like it did (has?) in Europe. Seems like it could do OK?

P.S. Sorry to everyone for pointed posts earlier, I am a bit passionate about the future of good music!

oresama-chan · Post by **oresama-chan** » 13 Jun 2006, 02:23

But even I, who tend to go for mushy tunes more than hyper aggressive
rocky super macho tunes, feel the current german eurobeat is boring, so
it doesn't seem to catch on with parapara teenagers mainly targetted by
Japanese record companies.

Vadim · Post by **Vadim** » 13 Jun 2006, 04:02

oresama-chan wrote:But even I, who tend to go for mushy tunes more than hyper aggressive rocky super macho tunes, feel the current german eurobeat is boring, so it doesn't seem to catch on with parapara teenagers mainly targetted by Japanese record companies.

The reason why german sound is not optimised for papa para is the simple fact that this music was never made for Japan.
U can't judge whole style on a basis of dozen of tracks,it's not objective.
U can design german sound to work for para para,in fact something is
being done as we speak...it's just a new concept for this style..
It's not that one style is better than the other,I enjoy both german and italian sound,it's just that I look around me and see a multinational
strong pop industry with millions of artists and compare it to a shrinking and overstressed eurobeat one that is kept to almost a single compilation. Why is it wrong to have a multinational eurobeat industry?

oresama-chan · Post by **oresama-chan** » 13 Jun 2006, 06:38

Vadim wrote:Why is it wrong to have a multinational eurobeat industry?

Not wrong at all. Actually some Japanese are producing eurobeat
songs and releasing them, besides back in the first eurobeat boom
we enjoyed eurobeat made in various nations, British, German,
Dutch, Belgian, Spanish, Swiss, Yugoslavian...
But like UQ100 said, in the current situation surrounding this music,
it seems tough.

The reason why german sound is not optimised for papa para is the simple fact that this music was never made for Japan.

I have no idea how Japanese recording labels buy in foreign
music, but also those German ppl hold kinda music fair like MIDEM
to showcase their products? If not, how could the Japanese get interested
in them?

Vadim · Post by **Vadim** » 13 Jun 2006, 07:14

But like UQ100 said, in the current situation surrounding this music, it seems tough.

True,but the first step is accepting the possibility of a growth and expansion.

I have no idea how Japanese recording labels buy in foreign
music, but also those German ppl hold kinda music fair like MIDEM
to showcase their products? If not, how could the Japanese get interested
in them?

Demand creates the availability. When Avex was interested in pwl
ppl for mixing Komuro tracks,they ended up getting both Ford and Hammond. These ppl don't live in a cave,the usual channels might
work. David Brandes produced techno for Japan,he may be capable
of eurobeat production,and he may be able to get his mentor in
music production,T.Hendrick, who was one of the most powerfull
german sound producers in the 80-s,to join in production of tracks.
Another powerfull team are Systems In Blue and they have a website.
Martin Tychsen(he is a producer) of Silent Circle has a web presence.
If anyone wanted,they could dig up a lot of german producers
who can make their nation's eurobeat just by surfing the internet.
PWL also are not exactly hiding from public view,so any label that
wants them to make eurobeat just has to ask.

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Super Eurobeat Vol. 168

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