Super Eurobeat Vol. 168

[drnrg]

UQ100

EDIT: Oh, and I forgot: "You Spin Me Round" got a re-release this year. Granted, it's due to Pete Burns appearing on "Celebrity Big Brother," but still.

Yeah, but remember Pete Burns has allways been popular in Japan as well as All over the world. people don't like to admit it, but we all love him


UQ100

If I cared for what was cool I surely would never listen to Eurobeat

hey don't tell me you don't concider Eurobeat cool? I cruise down Revolution st. everyday with "Terminator" full blast on my Explode system(Plug plug) and I'm cooler than a pinguin on skis


anyways,
I am not too up on German Eurobeat Hi NRG. I doubt it is anything remotely resembling Eurobeat. and I'm pretty sure it is iether too slow or with different bass effects. I do recall Mike Mareen- Love Spy as one of my favs, but other than that it draws a blank at the moment. As far as Eurobeat right now. Leave it as it is. I do want any Tranz, jungle or techno sound effects showing up on any trax. I remember someone stating that back in late 90's TIME and ABeatC were experiomenting with adding these effects onto thier intros. Personally I did not like this. One song that comes to mind was Victoria's "Give Me The Night" The intro, break and ending was completely ruined with these sounds.
I think the only non Italo-HiNRG instrument added onto Eurobeat that works is the electric guiutar, Especially the way TIME and ABeatC present it. but please basically I like my Eurobeat in these styles. TUFF, Fast,Romantic, Frantic,and Aggressive, but most of all traditional with iether macho or high pitched girly vocals. This formula seems to work for many years. Anything else, just wouldn't be Eurobeat. :

[Vadim]

anyways,
I am not too up on German Eurobeat Hi NRG. I doubt it is anything remotely resembling Eurobeat.

It's also hi nrg,just a different style. It's like in kung-fu: u have a tiger
style, and you have the drunken style,but it's all kung-fu.
Maybe Oresama could comment on the things that he found to be
different in german style.

and I'm pretty sure it is iether too slow or with different bass effects.

Bass is pretty often a similar octave pattern, it's the hi nrg bass line.
It can be as fast or slow as a japanese labels would want it to be.

Leave it as it is. I do want any Tranz, jungle or techno sound effects showing up on any trax.

If too much of those get on tracks,then it's not eurobeat,no matter where it comes from. Besides,I don't view this in a way of displacement of or in competion with italian biz,but in expanding of the genre to come closer to greater pop in variety and popularity. Still,it matters not what I think,I am just a fan,and japanese labels aren't consulting me. I just wanted
to see how ppl on forum would react to such ideas. Are such things more or less acceptable to our eurobeaters..?

TUFF, Fast,Romantic, Frantic,and Aggressive, but most of all traditional with iether macho or high pitched girly vocals. This formula seems to work for many years. Anything else, just wouldn't be Eurobeat.

I think it's unlikely that expansion will occur,as it hasn't in so many years,
and everyone else moved on to commercial music. I don't find an
italian style of hi nrg to be a very different one from other styles.
Agressivness is perhaps lower in german and pwl hi nrg,but the romantic
aspect is surely much developed.Speed may be increased for Japan.

[UQ100]

Yeah, but remember Pete Burns has allways been popular in Japan as well as All over the world. people don't like to admit it, but we all love him

Haha, I put down the success of "You Spin Me Round" to the original interesting concept/song (I mean, what a fantastic title!) that came from DOA, and the brilliant Hi-NRG production from SAW, you don't keep selling a track just because the lead singer has excessive looking plastic surgery and wears allegedly illegal fur clothing, helps to get attention though. Oh, and for some reason it's more associated with DOA than SAW, so doesn't carry the stigma.

hey don't tell me you don't concider Eurobeat cool? I cruise down Revolution st. everyday with "Terminator" full blast on my Explode system(Plug plug) and I'm cooler than a pinguin on skis

Well, "cool" kinda comes down to "what other people think," eh? I'd rather not drive down the street blasting Eurobeat, people look funny at you... right?

(As for Explod, I have an EVX-155 http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdet ... er=294-560 based subwoofer. As for the car <ahem> I wear headphones.)

I think the only non Italo-HiNRG instrument added onto Eurobeat that works is the electric guiutar

Well electric guitar features on many SAW tracks, sometimes solos in the middle eight (the instrumental in the middle of the song) but more often rhythm guitar parts all over ("Love in the First Degree" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nl46l8XHvgp is a more obvious example). Actually solos are one thing but I think proper use of rhythm guitar really adds to the arrangement, provides a nice basic groove in there, helps "humanize" all the sequenced parts as well. Can't really think of any more recent tracks that use it though, I love the guitar solo on "Heart's on Fire" though.

[UQ100]

But like UQ100 said, in the current situation surrounding this music, it seems tough.

True,but the first step is accepting the possibility of a growth and expansion.

Of course true, but why would record companies look to this as growth/expansion? Or maybe in Japan there are opportunities with a growth in "para para"?

Demand creates the availability.

Have to "create" demand too though.

When Avex was interested in pwl ppl for mixing Komuro tracks,they ended up getting both Ford and Hammond. These ppl don't live in a cave,the usual channels might work.

That's right, but I think in the long run it's important to bring in new people, both for a fresh and energetic approach, but also, because Hi-NRG styles are so undocumented, knowledge will eventually get lost otherwise.

BTW, did any of those Komuro tracks turn out well?

[UQ100]

It's also hi nrg,just a different style. It's like in kung-fu: u have a tiger style, and you have the drunken style,but it's all kung-fu.
Maybe Oresama could comment on the things that he found to be
different in german style

In my somewhat limited experience of German Eurobeat, it tends more towards the "military" quantized sound. De-de-de-de-dic-dic, dic-dic... de-de-de-de-dic-dic, dic-dic... Maybe that's the 80's stuff though. It's a very similar style to other 80's Hi-NRG.

and I'm pretty sure it is iether too slow or with different bass effects.

Bass is pretty often a similar octave pattern, it's the hi nrg bass line.
It can be as fast or slow as a japanese labels would want it to be.

Well, gotta modify that bass for today's Eurobeat, not a big deal though.

Besides,I don't view this in a way of displacement of or in competion with italian biz,but in expanding of the genre to come closer to greater pop in variety and popularity. Still,it matters not what I think,I am just a fan,and japanese labels aren't consulting me. I just wanted to see how ppl on forum would react to such ideas. Are such things more or less acceptable to our eurobeaters..?

Well, more production teams in different locations is desirable, of course, but then again, it also creates its own uncertainty, messes around with a "comfortable" situation.

I think it's unlikely that expansion will occur,as it hasn't in so many years, and everyone else moved on to commercial music. I don't find an italian style of hi nrg to be a very different one from other styles. Agressivness is perhaps lower in german and pwl hi nrg,but the romantic aspect is surely much developed.Speed may be increased for Japan.

IMO it's important to write "real" songs that people remember as special, otherwise the result is something with initial but not lasting impact, ultimately forgettable. SAW stuff is great songwriting, some of today's Eurobeat is good, some not.

(I still find this whole anti-commerical thing weird, you couldn't get more commerical than this stuff in the 80's!)

[Vadim]

Of course true, but why would record companies look to this as growth/expansion? Or maybe in Japan there are opportunities with a growth in "para para"?

cause it's a viable marketing that is practised with all other genres of
music.EB is an exception being kept on an exclusive basis from
a number of exclusive writing/producing formations from Italy.
It's likely that they desire to keep their biz the only game in town.
That's why I expect very little change in the real world EB market.

but also, because Hi-NRG styles are so undocumented, knowledge will eventually get lost otherwise.

that is my point exactly. If u don't bring other styles of hi nrg to Japan,
they will be lost forever. Even Italo is pretty much only made by a few fans nowdays,which indicate a near death condition for that style.
Europe can't support this music, I am increasingly sure of that.

BTW, did any of those Komuro tracks turn out well?

His projects sold millions in Japan.

[Vadim]

In my somewhat limited experience of German Eurobeat, it tends more towards the "military" quantized sound. De-de-de-de-dic-dic, dic-dic... de-de-de-de-dic-dic, dic-dic... Maybe that's the 80's stuff though. It's a very similar style to other 80's Hi-NRG.

what artist did u listen to?

Well, more production teams in different locations is desirable, of course, but then again, it also creates its own uncertainty, messes around with a "comfortable" situation.

It's the difference between a view of a fan and of EB houses. A fan wants
more good music, but italian EB teams may just want to keep dominating their turf and repell all competion.

(I still find this whole anti-commerical thing weird, you couldn't get more commerical than this stuff in the 80's!)

Difference is that hi nrg didn't attack other dance music,but techno did.
More agressive dj music concept won the day. They still keep hi nrg
banned from european market,as dance radio stations and clubs cater to dj culture.

[UQ100]

In my somewhat limited experience of German Eurobeat, it tends more towards the "military" quantized sound. De-de-de-de-dic-dic, dic-dic... de-de-de-de-dic-dic, dic-dic... Maybe that's the 80's stuff though. It's a very similar style to other 80's Hi-NRG.

what artist did u listen to?

C. C. Catch, Lian Ross...

It's the difference between a view of a fan and of EB houses. A fan wants more good music, but italian EB teams may just want to keep dominating their turf and repell all competion.

Well, what you describe is called a "cartel".

(I still find this whole anti-commerical thing weird, you couldn't get more commerical than this stuff in the 80's!)

Difference is that hi nrg didn't attack other dance music,but techno did.
More agressive dj music concept won the day. They still keep hi nrg
banned from european market,as dance radio stations and clubs cater to dj culture.

That music really fails to break through into mass popularity, that's why it remains on those radio stations and has to be packaged with the nonsense "DJ culture" thing, it has to be sold as a whole "lifestyle". You know, the "cool DJ" constantly on the plane flying around "playing" clubs and who also has time to create his "own" material. Though not sure it's doing so great these days, some of the superclubs (e.g. Cream) in the UK shut.

In reality the lack of attractive, well written dance music is destroying the whole genre.

But let's go back here... I remember 1990, suddenly SAW became a big joke, it was "fake", Kylie's voice was "fake", they were "cheating" and I vaguely remember comments like other people should be given a chance. Now I don't know what was going on in Italy, but in the UK, it seems to me that many jealous and inferior talents who weren't capable of that quality or sound started to attack it and then promote whatever they have to offer on social/lifestyle basis, no way they could offer their junk on a musical basis.

[UQ100]

Of course true, but why would record companies look to this as growth/expansion? Or maybe in Japan there are opportunities with a growth in "para para"?

cause it's a viable marketing that is practised with all other genres of
music.EB is an exception being kept on an exclusive basis from
a number of exclusive writing/producing formations from Italy.
It's likely that they desire to keep their biz the only game in town.
That's why I expect very little change in the real world EB market.

Well, it seems odd opportunities for big expansion in producers weren't taken during booms, right?

but also, because Hi-NRG styles are so undocumented, knowledge will eventually get lost otherwise.

that is my point exactly. If u don't bring other styles of hi nrg to Japan, they will be lost forever. Even Italo is pretty much only made by a few fans nowdays,which indicate a near death condition for that style. Europe can't support this music, I am increasingly sure of that.

Well, if there a true potential in Japan, then ideally it's worth expanding out, really should put together new production teams and maybe hire some of the old hands at Hi-NRG styles to "train" them or let them work everything out for themselves. But, you need someone in among the Japanese labels who sees a potential and who is able to push hard for it. Probably that wouldn't be Avex.

But it's beyond me though because I have zero insight or feel for the Japanese market. Maybe the link with para para is too strong, better to market as more general pop, and slow bpm down?

BTW, did any of those Komuro tracks turn out well?

His projects sold millions in Japan.

I meant if you thought they were any good, what the styles were, etc.?

[Shawaazu]

I don't know if this counts... but I thought the Pete Hammond remix of Just The Way To Love was AWESOME!

[Vadim]

C. C. Catch,

There are some neat compilations of her stuff with full collection of tracks. Her latest edel best of compilation has a dvd with her videos from the 80-s. If one wants to get a feel of what best german eurobeat was about,
they may get this feeling from that edel compilation.
CCC is my most favorite artist of all time, I really wish for this sound to come back. MT and CCC 80-s stuff is a must have for any harcore hi-nrgist,and fortunately their stuff is still in print.

Lian Ross...

*Fantasy* and *Say you'l never* have that Bohlen sound in C.C.Catch venue. These 2 are among the most successfull german 80-s EB tracks.
The rest of her tracks were in more banal poppish style.

Well, what you describe is called a "cartel".

Well, if D.R. suddenly kisses u on the mouth, u know what that means...
(see the *godfather* flicks for refference).

Though not sure it's doing so great these days, some of the superclubs (e.g. Cream) in the UK shut.

Manufactured pop is doing the same thing to techno that techno did to hi nrg, all that masssive media bombardment of americana-pop is kicking techno out of a mainstream.

In reality the lack of attractive, well written dance music is destroying the whole genre.

I am actually rather impressed by songwriting that belgian and some other vocal trance projects display. POP oriented Trance has many good songs.But trance or eurodance sound is realy annoing to me,and I especially deslike hearing it in eurobeat.

and I vaguely remember comments like other people should be given a chance.

Who would mind if other people got their break..? it's just that when
these ppl got that break,they shoved everyone else out of the door.

to offer on social/lifestyle basis, no way they could offer their junk on a musical basis.

that's just the thing that hi nrg is never a lifestyle. some groups try to
indentify with it,in fact,in Japan it's more of a group thing than just music.
but it's more natural for this music philosophy to just be neutral, it really
has nothing to say,it's there to uplift and give u the positive energy-nothing more..

[UQ100]

C. C. Catch,

There are some neat compilations of her stuff with full collection of tracks. Her latest edel best of compilation has a dvd with her videos from the 80-s. If one wants to get a feel of what best german eurobeat was about,
they may get this feeling from that edel compilation.

Hmm, sounds like another item to add to the list of things to buy!

CCC is my most favorite artist of all time, I really wish for this sound to come back. MT and CCC 80-s stuff is a must have for any harcore hi-nrgist,and fortunately their stuff is still in print.

Ah, that explains why you like the first Kylie album, not dissimilar sounding. That sound is great, I love songs like "Backseat of Your Cadillac," but I doubt anyone would create it again. Actually I remember some interview with C.C. Catch where it sounded like she didn't really like it herself.

Incidentally, Frank Farian (producer of Bonny M, Milli Vanilli) recently wrote a book ("Stupid Dieser Bohlen") denouncing Dieter Bohlen as a fraud (!), unfortunately it's in German, but it might have some interesting info!

(YIKES!)

Lian Ross...

*Fantasy* and *Say you'l never* have that Bohlen sound in C.C.Catch venue. These 2 are among the most successfull german 80-s EB tracks.
The rest of her tracks were in more banal poppish style.

Her voice reminds me of Hazell Dean. So, nothing to seek out beyond the "The Best of and More" album?

And that's it for German Hi-NRG, or there more good stuff out there?

Well, what you describe is called a "cartel".

Well, if D.R. suddenly kisses u on the mouth, u know what that means...
(see the *godfather* flicks for refference).

LOL.

Though not sure it's doing so great these days, some of the superclubs (e.g. Cream) in the UK shut.

Manufactured pop is doing the same thing to techno that techno did to hi nrg, all that masssive media bombardment of americana-pop is kicking techno out of a mainstream.

You mean like rap and Rn'B?

All styles have rise and fall, progressive rock fans didn't like the 80s for instance, but the difference is that techno styles haven't become untouchable.

In reality the lack of attractive, well written dance music is destroying the whole genre.

I am actually rather impressed by songwriting that belgian and some other vocal trance projects display. POP oriented Trance has many good songs.

Like Kate Ryan?

and I vaguely remember comments like other people should be given a chance.

Who would mind if other people got their break..? it's just that when these ppl got that break,they shoved everyone else out of the door.

Sometimes it's a fair comment, sometimes it's used as a manipulative tool by those who aren't good enough to get in the door so they have to do a "coup d'etat" somehow. Early 90's music was largely quite inferior, so you can figure out what it was in this case.

to offer on social/lifestyle basis, no way they could offer their junk on a musical basis.

that's just the thing that hi nrg is never a lifestyle. some groups try to indentify with it,in fact,in Japan it's more of a group thing than just music.
but it's more natural for this music philosophy to just be neutral, it really has nothing to say,it's there to uplift and give u the positive energy-nothing more..

Right, and one of the things I definitely like about this type of music, but some people think music should exist for political purposes, or as a badge, they don't like it, but then I suggest they don't really "get" music themselves if they have to come up with different reasons for its existence but never that of just enjoying listening to it. Anyway, this "benefit" of Hi-NRG styles has unfortunately been used by many as a means of attack.

[UQ100]

I don't know if this counts... but I thought the Pete Hammond remix of Just The Way To Love was AWESOME!

Is there a clip available anywhere?

[Vadim]

Hmm, sounds like another item to add to the list of things to buy!

Maybe it's best to talk by p.m. about the things u could put on your shopping list.

Actually I remember some interview with C.C. Catch where it sounded like she didn't really like it herself.

It's not that she doesn't like the music,it's the guy who wrote the songs
that she doesn't like.

Incidentally, Frank Farian (producer of Bonny M, Milli Vanilli) recently wrote a book ("Stupid Dieser Bohlen") denouncing Dieter Bohlen as a fraud (!), unfortunately it's in German, but it might have some interesting info!

Noticably,it's the rant of a Milli Vanilli producer, who is a man who was embarassed internationally when Milli Vanilli was scandalized for being *fake*. And he is mainly just *talking shiit* about his prime competitor for the charts.

Her voice reminds me of Hazell Dean. So, nothing to seek out beyond the "The Best of and More" album?

there isn't much beyond that,I think.

And that's it for German Hi-NRG, or there more good stuff out there?

there is much good stuff to dig up... but we shouldn't overload a forum dedicated to an italian EB music with it,so maybe personal emailing
is better for discussing the ways to explore *the other styles*.

You mean like rap and Rn'B?

General pop wave,that is much packed with r'n'b. Rap is another weapon
that is loosed by the USA big-media-buckers on the world as a weapon in a crusade to moranize all the poor young humanity that had a misfortune to get an mtv in their cable.

All styles have rise and fall, progressive rock fans didn't like the 80s for instance, but the difference is that techno styles haven't become untouchable.

it's just way too hard to a typical dance producer to unhinge the
*obligatory techno sounds* mentality.

Like Kate Ryan?

sure.

Early 90's music was largely quite inferior, so you can figure out what it was in this case.

I can't stand the sacharine eurodance, this also goes for the happy hardcore that came out of it... At least belgian trancers brought back the depressing songs that hit a spot for a while and cleared that rubbish away..

Anyway, this "benefit" of Hi-NRG styles has unfortunately been used by many as a means of attack

The truth has been revealed that it's smarter to get away from the unapriciative western audience and plug in the asian market.

[Shawaazu]

I don't know if this counts... but I thought the Pete Hammond remix of Just The Way To Love was AWESOME!

Is there a clip available anywhere?

Trinity - Just The Way To Love (Pete Hammond 80's Style Re-mix)

There we go I don't usually like using yousendit, but since I'm uploading it as a sample it'll do I ripped the audio off the J-Euro Para Para VCD.