SEB 177

drnrg · Post by **drnrg** » 01 May 2007, 02:48

I think it would be cool to review 10 different songs from 10 different sebs every month. In other words The Site Master picks 10 random songs and will all submit our review of those songs. Then in the end the song is given a grade(1-10) based on all the overall numbers it was given. I think this gives it a fun twist and not just review the same SEBs that were allready graded in the Past. Also Reading some older reviews I notice that someTIMES a great song that is put on a mediocre volume, kinda sufferes from the lesser songs that surround it, so my idea gives each song a chance to stand on its own.
It's kinda like the BEST Of Beats game ,but with a different twist. Hey I think it should get started again

Post by **SuperEuroJimmy** » 01 May 2007, 04:50

Talking about best of beats... whatever happened to that? :O

And Kitsune, that's exactly why I recommend using words as gradings, and not numbers. ;)

Humbedooh · Post by **Humbedooh** » 01 May 2007, 06:36

MKwiakaku wrote:Talking about best of beats... whatever happened to that? :O

And Kitsune, that's exactly why I recommend using words as gradings, and not numbers.

The thing about using numbers as grades is usually because you have to be able to calculate an average score for comparison, so it's not totally daft. And yeah, most scores aim for an average around the 60-70% of the scale because there should be room for grades that mean you don't qualify (in Denmark f.x., the new grading scale has the scores -3 and 0 for people who do not qualify, whereas the grades 5, 7, 10, 12 means you qualify).

Furthermore, whether or not you use numbers or words (I think you should use either words or numbers with associated descriptions), you should at least be sure that there are noticeable gaps between the grades - if you simply use 1-10, what's to say if a song is 5, 6 or 7? Preferably, I'd go for a scale that had only 5-6 grades that each had distinct different descriptions associated with them.

Finally, in the matter of Best of Beats...well that game might just get a comeback real soon! In a slightly altered version~

DJ Mike TJG · Post by **DJ Mike TJG** » 01 May 2007, 07:21

KitsuneStar wrote:
DJ Mike TJG wrote:Well a 1-10 grading system should be pretty obvious if used properly As in, an average song really does get 4-6 and not an 8 like some stupid gaming magazine.
I'm not sure 40% would be considered average by any grading system, though... 60-70% seems more about average by most grading systems.

Any grading system that uses 60-70% as an "average" is typical marketing bias!

If you use a scale properly, then 5 is the average, and if you read any respectable publication that's how they'll do it as well! How on earth are you supposed to read a scale if it's tilted?

That's why I'm not really a fan of EBP's scoring system - I'm forever being confused by those 4 and 5s turning up, thinking "Oh, so it's not such a bad song, then", when in fact a 4 is the WORST score a song can get!

drnrg · Post by **drnrg** » 01 May 2007, 07:40

Well, thinking about it now, I realize that 1-5 would be pretty useless. Hardly noone evr uses them in thier reviews. Including myself. Usually the score of 6 is the lowest. Imean we are dealing with Eurobeat here

Let's leave the 1-5 scores for music like techno and hip hop

Last.fm · Post by **Bore** » 01 May 2007, 09:11

The fact that there is a dozen different grading systems it isn't really all that easy to find a suitable one for each and everyone. I've also been trying to rethink the current grades to adjust to 1-10 or possibly alter it some other way. Possibly just add the numbers 1-4 to the bottom of the grading system as "disqualified" grades like Humbe said.

I also agree that the 5 star/point system sucks, it hasn't got enough flexibility for most albums. So the system definitely has to have the more variety, which is probably also why I love the -/+/½ system, but then again I've grown up seeing the system everywhere and used by many so it is pretty normal for me to use it. But knowing it's not that common elsewhere it might be a bit hard to understand for some.

But in the long run I think that it's just the manner of getting used to things and after so many years of doing stuff and grading them with the same system I don't really think I will even change it. Question is, how will the user review thing work. Placing 2 different grading systems next to each other might be even more confusing.

Post by **SuperEuroJimmy** » 01 May 2007, 09:39

A good example of what I meant can be seen on animenewsnetwork.com. You'll have to register for an account, and then rate an anime. They have a 1 to 10 grading system, but you grade series by selecting a phrase. This has led me to grade series higher or lower than I would if I were to give them points, but it works better in the end.

DJ Mike TJG · Post by **DJ Mike TJG** » 01 May 2007, 18:44

I don't mind the fact that people feel they can't award less than 6 for EB songs, but personally I don't have a problem with it - there are numerous songs in the EB canon that I'd easily award 1-3 based on such poor quality - a totally naff song with absolutely no redeeming qualities would hit 1, whereas a song which is basically rubbish but perhaps a little less annoying would be a 3 (my perfect example of a 3-worthy song is Dave Rodgers' remake of Make Up Your Mind, in fact).

Toni · Post by **Toni** » 01 May 2007, 20:02

Grades with numbers? It can never be any confusing than over here in Germany! I'm actually a dutch exchange student, so I have to calculate the german system back to the dutch system... It's something like this:

US (United Staytes) = US System grades;
D (Deutschland) = German System grades;
NL (Nederland) = Dutch System grades;

US = D = NL
A+ = 1+ = 10 (top-notch!)
A = 1 = 9 (very high)
B = 2 = 8,5 (high)
C = 3 = 7,5 (moderate)
D = 4 = 6,5 (adequate)
D- = 4,5 = 5,5 (lowest, but still adequate)
F = 5 = 5~1 (inadequate)

Can you believe it? It's even more confusing since some teachers in the Netherlands also use the US System in combination with the dutch system...

IMO the 1-10 system is best. I don't think it will be appropriate to use a percentage system (as in Japan) for grading songs, since there are no real points to score by songs, now are there?

drnrg · Post by **drnrg** » 01 May 2007, 22:01

MKwiakaku

They have a 1 to 10 grading system, but you grade series by selecting a phrase. This has led me to grade series higher or lower than I would if I were to give them points, but it works better in the end.

The reason I do not like that Phrase system is because I think the voter as an individual loses his/her identity. Meaning, that all they are really doing is selecting something that the webmaster has allready thought up instead of expressing thier own point. I think it highly degrading for a Eurobeat song to be dismissed with words like "It sucked" "Boreing"'this song really sucks', 'I don't really like it',. Even positive ones 'I like this one', 'It's a good song', Don't do the song justice. I perfer seeing those stand out reasons like Mentioning a great intro, Vocals ,Theme,etc..but definately in the end, the number sytem with the +,- etc.. is best IMOH

I still think many great songs suffer from being on mediocre SEBs and should be graded seperately instead of as in a whole. But that's me

Post by **SuperEuroJimmy** » 01 May 2007, 23:09

True, but the phrase-rating should only be used to grade things. Of course you should be able to leave a comment with it. Or just review everything, and give everything a phrase-rating.

Afterwards, only the personal review-texts will be shown, but the grade-rating is counted for the average rating, thus making the phrase-rating anonymous.

Humbedooh · Post by **Humbedooh** » 02 May 2007, 03:37

I agree with the mudkip fan

The helping phrases for grades exist in every educational system, but they are not used to put on your paper. The sole purpose is to make it clear to whoever is grading, that this grade represents a quality of a certain kind. Otherwise, the opinion of what the grade 7 is would be totally different from teacher to teacher, and you'd have no real purpose in comparing scores.

f.x. you could have helping phrases like this:

5) Adequate song that resembles Eurobeat, but has no distinct qualities of its own
6) Eurobeat song with minor distinct elements but a terrible Italian accent!
7) Eurobeat song with distinct pleasurable elements and a hawt Italian accent!

This is of course a random rough example, but now it'd be clear that if you all hated the accent in that song, it shouldn't get a 7.

Mikaeru · Post by **Mikaeru** » 02 May 2007, 04:56

My big thing with the 10 point system is that especially with the lower numbers, certain people someTIMES give undeservingly low numbers. Half the time it seems like songs get either 10, 7 or 0.

I'd go for something like:

1 - Bad song, bad production (given out sparingly)
2 - Okay song (Not my thing/I'd skip it listening to cd)
3 - Good song (Wouldn't skip it, but wouldn't add it to a playlist)
4 - Great song
5 - Amazing, best song on album (like 1, given out sparingly, maybe 1 or 2 per album

And in general I really find people tend to go for hyperboles with their reviews. I mean, according to what I just wrote, out of ALL the SEB I've listened to, I could probably count on one hand the number of songs I'd give a 1 to. Yeah, there's songs I don't like, but with everything you need to accept that there is some merit in them. For the most part, yeah, I don't like TIME's slower Helena/Sophie stuff, but it's still a decent production, just not to my tastes. I know some people aren't a fan of the happy-girly stuff, but generally they are still good productions, even if you don't like the style. There's nothing wrong with saying, "Okay song, just not my thing." No need to bash something just because you don't like the style it's aiming for.

Post by **SuperEuroJimmy** » 02 May 2007, 05:14

Gooooo Mike! :D

I gave AnimeNewsNetwork.com as an example earlier, allow me to post whatever they use to grade anime:

A Masterpiece, exquisite beyond words
Excellent, shoud be in anyone's collection
Very good, don't miss it
Good, worth seeing
Decent, I didn't lose my time
So-so, it didn't really grab my attention
Not really good, but not a total waste either
Weak, I wish I'd done something better with my time
Bad, really not recommended
Awful, should be avoided at all costs
Worst ever, maybe useful as sadistic torture device

I guess this sums up the idea pretty much. For an example of how the grades are converted into anonymous stats, check out this page. Just below the plot summary there's a graph that shows how people rated it. For this show, it's an pretty good series, but superb, nor just good. You can easily tell from the graph. If we take another example, say this one, it's pretty clear you'd better watch paint dry, instead of watching this. (too bad, the games are awesome!)

Humbedooh wrote:I agree with the mudkip fan :)

OMG I GOT A TITLE! :O!

DJ Mike TJG · Post by **DJ Mike TJG** » 02 May 2007, 07:05

Mikaeru wrote:My big thing with the 10 point system is that especially with the lower numbers, certain people someTIMES give undeservingly low numbers. Half the time it seems like songs get either 10, 7 or 0.

I'm not one to give out a 10 easily - in fact, in accordance with magazines like Edge or Games TM over here in the UK, a 10 should be an extremely rare event. That indicates that the song is perfect, and there's absolutely no way you feel it could be any better - NO way.

With that in mind, most excellent/outstanding songs should be getting 8-9, which makes it much easier to guage what the lower numbers mean.

Equally, a 1 shouldn't be happening that often, if at all! That's a poor sign for Eurobeat in general if a song is rubbish enough to gather that score (luckily I can't think of any examples right now!)

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