Eurobeat Prime :: Forum

I still don't understand why so many of you are so pessimistic.
Gangnam Style got millions and millions of views ALL OVER THE WORLD.
Of course it's going to be succesful and there will be a new Euro Boom if we can make this viral

DarkSky wrote:I still don't understand why so many of you are so pessimistic.
Gangnam Style got millions and millions of views ALL OVER THE WORLD.
Of course it's going to be succesful and there will be a new Euro Boom if we can make this viral

I would all for the idea. Would this be a multi-studio effort or a Dima effort? Not that it matters anyhow. I would think with as many Touhou and Brony videos there are on youtube, there could be a good chance of making somehting viral. I am on board, but I do not know the first think about creating music...only what I think sounds good. DarkSky, you can PM me with additional information. I am totally there.

DarkSky wrote:I still don't understand why so many of you are so pessimistic.
Gangnam Style got millions and millions of views ALL OVER THE WORLD.
Of course it's going to be succesful and there will be a new Euro Boom if we can make this viral

I think the pessimism comes from the notion that when something becomes popular it "cheapens it". (This is usually due to fans hearing the one song and thinking that's how everything is. Think "Night of Fire" when it was new.)

That said, I'd be happy to put some work into a viral attempt with Eurobeat. What do you have in mind?

zoupzuop2 wrote:

DarkSky wrote:I still don't understand why so many of you are so pessimistic.
Gangnam Style got millions and millions of views ALL OVER THE WORLD.
Of course it's going to be succesful and there will be a new Euro Boom if we can make this viral

I think the pessimism comes from the notion that when something becomes popular it "cheapens it". (This is usually due to fans hearing the one song and thinking that's how everything is. Think "Night of Fire" when it was new.)

That said, I'd be happy to put some work into a viral attempt with Eurobeat. What do you have in mind?

That's exactly the point that I tried to make earlier. Everyone that isn't a fan of K-pop now believes that everything will basically have a ridiculous gimmicky dance routine, be sung by a man in a tuxedo, and be ridiculously cheesy. And while there is a lot of that material in the K-pop world, it's not the whole picture.

Once again, I'll say that I'm not against a viral video to promote Eurobeat, but I just think that the style and format of the video should be carefully planned and executed to not cheapen the genre as a whole

But that's really contradictory isn't it? Huh?

Everybody wants to see the Eurobeat market expanding (e.g. to other countries), but at the same time they want it to stay small, exclusive, not commercial.

Growth = become commercial -> become big -> big audience -> ''cheapens it''

Being popular doesn't mean you have to be cheap. I look forward to see what you create

the_ditz wrote:That's exactly the point that I tried to make earlier. Everyone that isn't a fan of K-pop now believes that everything will basically have a ridiculous gimmicky dance routine, be sung by a man in a tuxedo, and be ridiculously cheesy. And while there is a lot of that material in the K-pop world, it's not the whole picture.

Once again, I'll say that I'm not against a viral video to promote Eurobeat, but I just think that the style and format of the video should be carefully planned and executed to not cheapen the genre as a whole

That bolded part is part the problem I have with the assumption... yes, you'll have a few misguided people that DO think all KPop is like that, but not "EVERYONE". As well, the average music fan— someone who buys records, but probably won't get into the industry at any point— usually doesn't take the time to learn every nuance of how that song's style came to be beforehand, and I don't think they should have to, unless they start making claims as if they know more about the style/genre than they really do.

DarkSky wrote:But that's really contradictory isn't it? Huh?

Everybody wants to see the Eurobeat market expanding (e.g. to other countries), but at the same time they want it to stay small, exclusive, not commercial.

Growth = become commercial -> become big -> big audience -> ''cheapens it''

Note: I'm going to use a lot of EDM-general examples here, simply because it's the world I know best outside of Eurobeat, as well as an industry model— NOT a style model— I feel Eurobeat could benefit from understanding.
The way that I've seen the existing, here-since-the-early-days Eurobeat community go about it, they DON'T want the genre to grow because, frankly, of the benefits that arise from a genre being small and self-contained. It's not AS tainted with influences they may not like, there are more specialists who know what they're talking about, and... frankly, who DOESN'T want to be part of something secret and exclusive? As well, by letting more of the "masses" into your super special secret genre, you get more imbeciles (simply by virtue of having more people involved).

You get the people who are like "SKRILLEX INVENTED DUBSTEP", "DAVID GUETTA SURE IS A LEGIT DJ", "ONE DIRECTION IS SOOOOO NOT OVERSATURATED YET" and "GANGNAM STYLE IS THE ONLY KPOP SONG I EVER KNOW BUT I'M GONNA CALL MYSELF A FAN OF THE ENTIRE STYLE WITHOUT HAVING EVER HEARD 'STARIAN'" and what have you. And, I can understand that repulsion. The thought of that kind of mindset entering our community— and with such SCALE, if it's done right!— is, admittedly, a bit frightening.

As well, large genres have cheap imitators. For every "Spectrum" there are three knockoffs (one of which gets its failure plagiarist "producer", Al Walser to get his own ripoff into the Grammies), and for every well-made song there are several "me toos" made by those who want to capitalize on the novelty factor while it lasts. This is true of any and all genres facing ANY of the beams of Mainstream sunlight, however faint or temporary and glancing.

But with that bad comes, in my opinion, a more abundant good— you have people who really DO sit with the genre and bring new thought processes and ideas to the table, not necessarily by producers and writers, but by people who would play it in places we haven't thought before. You have more people buying it in the first place. You open up the doors for a community that begins to thrive simply by virtue of size. And, of course, you get a VAST increase in the lifeblood of any genre— money. Yes, that prickly, soul-sucking substance still does wonders to keep genres alive, and popularity would certainly help increase its abundance. A genre with a great deal of monetary success can take more risks with the style, simply because if it doesn't work out in the next volume, they're not in such trouble that they can't learn from their mistakes in the one after that. A genre with LESS monetary success, however, must remain rigid in its style because it cannot afford to take as many risks with what's guaranteed to sell/move records. Sound familiar~?

By opening the genre up with growth it also opens itself to the rest of the music-producing world— again, with some "negative" influences though I feel this is a VERY strongly subjective point— and builds relationships with people who may be able to incorporate elements into other things. It's why the EDM world rather specifically is one big clusterlove of artists from various labels joining each other, remixing each other's hit singles, touring together— the community thrives because they're so goddamned OPEN with each other. They're not even competitors so much as collaborators and colleagues. This sense of comeraderie catches on with a sufficient portion of the listenership of the genre-bed, hence why it's lasted a good bit longer than most "fad genres" have.

Eurobeat is a genre that has, in my opinion, what it takes to at least last a few more years in more than just its country of origin, but the luxuries of being a small/self-contained, released-only-for-its-own-existing-fans genre are those it can not much longer afford. The day is rapidly approaching at which we must decide if we want Eurobeat to grow and "suffer" the consequences and rewards of such increased popularity in more countries than it's been allowed to be heard previously (even if not into the immediate, "Top 40" sunlight, then at least some underground acclaim), or fade into, and it cannot be labeled much else accurately, death.

It's not a good position to be in— be "cheapened", as some would say, or fade into obscurity— and I acknowledge that; for all my own efforts at optimism and maintaining that Eurobeat does, in fact, have some sort of a chance, I also recognize that it can seldom afford to remain in the state in which we've so long and often loved it. It's a bitter pill to swallow, one perhaps still stuck in my throat (in before dirty jokes), but my optimism is not in disregard to these facts.

Of course, while I'd LOVE to work on a Viral Video (and still would if this next question wasn't easily answered), what good would it be if people can't buy the song from every computer, iPhone, or Android that has internet? Part of why Gangnam Style was so successful wasn't JUST because of the video— it was because people could "get their hands on it NOW". Their initial excitement with this new experience could be directed towards an immediately available purchase, a thing only possible if the song in our Eurobeat viral video had nothing to do with external licensing. In short, whoever made the song had better keep it a VERY good secret from not just Avex, but Warner, Farm, Universal, hell, even sub-labels, until the day it's available. Otherwise it's just not commercially viable. By the time new contracts rolled around (assuming they were all signed) and the songs WERE available, the interested will have come and gone.

It's possible, but it'd have to be done with immacculate precision, timing, quality and availability.

Damn, I miss when my posts could be small.

There's been a lot of discussion amongst the para para crowd lately about reviving interest. Since eurobeat and para para go hand in hand I'm sure they'd love to help out too.

zoupzuop2 wrote:
But with that bad comes, in my opinion, a more abundant good— you have people who really DO sit with the genre and bring new thought processes and ideas to the table, not necessarily by producers and writers, but by people who would play it in places we haven't thought before.

...and that's the thing...WHERE would Eurobeat be marketed in the States? I don't know where Disko Warp showcases Eurobeat music on the West Coast (Does Jimini Criket work with yall?), but I hate that Eurobeat in my area (TN/GA) is only played at Anime Cons, and only during the para routine, not the actual "rave" the con holds. You're right though, a genre cannot survive without a fan base investing in the genre. Sure, you may release an awesome viral hit, but you're going to need more, and then you're going to have to find a scene, whether it be the club or rave scene, where DJs can mix & people can actually dance to the music (since it IS a genre of EDM), or be left with people getting the impression that it's only a fake genre that gets released on DDR and at anime cons.

zoupzuop2

Of course, while I'd LOVE to work on a Viral Video (and still would if this next question wasn't easily answered), what good would it be if people can't buy the song from every computer, iPhone, or Android that has internet? Part of why Gangnam Style was so successful wasn't JUST because of the video— it was because people could "get their hands on it NOW".

That wouldn't stop anyone. There are those audio lifting programs from youtube. You know which ones. Audacity programs can fix the sound levels and make it sound professional. before you know it the "Pirates" will sell turn it into mp3 and sell it to the online mp3 purchase store before AVEX even knew what hit them.

legal or not, those who really want the song, will get it. Could even be someone who doens't particulalry like AVEX dealings?

My point being. One has to be very careful when making a Eurobeat would- turn Viral video. That this is probobly one of AVEX's biggest fears. To lose control of thier licence property.

drnrg wrote:That wouldn't stop anyone. There are those audio lifting programs from youtube. You know which ones. Audacity programs can fix the sound levels and make it sound professional. before you know it the "Pirates" will sell turn it into mp3 and sell it to the online mp3 purchase store before AVEX even knew what hit them.

legal or not, those who really want the song, will get it. Could even be someone who doens't particulalry like AVEX dealings?

You're right, it won't stop anyone, and it doesn't. However, the methods you're mentioning there really are a bit less mainstream than one would expect. For example, let's say I wanted all of, say, Blink182's music. I COULD, in theory, go and YoutubeDownloader-ify every single track they've ever made. It'd be a lot of blood, sweat and tears to get it, but I'd eventually, after quite some time, have it all.

In my experience, most pirates DON'T "sell the mp3 to online stores"— my very first-ever album "My Life as a Pixel" got pirated the day after release by a guy posting as "Robin Hood" (he even posted here!), and people COULD have had my album entirely for free. It's still one of my bestsellers, and in fact I got MORE sales that day than usual because people asked where to buy it after hearing it all through first.

Surprisingly, in the world of free downloads and piracy, some people WILL actually not only pay money, but they'll go back and compensate downloads they've already made. (Some will even pay MORE than the list price if given the option.) Just because something is freely available, that doesn't make it the ideal (or even best) option for listeners, and most folks I know are actually pretty willing to buy over download if the price and method is right.

drnrg wrote:My point being. One has to be very careful when making a Eurobeat would- turn Viral video. That this is probobly one of AVEX's biggest fears. To lose control of thier licence property.

The whole point is that it wouldn't be their (avex's) licensed property— and, if avex DID want to license it, they could work something out to make sure they milked it for all it was worth, instead of giving the finger to the other 90% of the fans that want in on buying the track, or at least just licensed it for Japan and allowed the label to release it to the rest of the world on their own. (Or, God forbid, avex could work on non-exclusive publishing rights, but the air in hell would freeze before that happens, it seems.)

zoupzuop2

The whole point is that it wouldn't be their (avex's) licensed property— and, if avex DID want to license it, they could work something out to make sure they milked it for all it was worth, instead of giving the finger to the other 90% of the fans that want in on buying the track, or at least just licensed it for Japan and allowed the label to release it to the rest of the world on their own. (Or, God forbid, avex could work on non-exclusive publishing rights, but the air in hell would freeze before that happens, it seems.)

I was under impression the video would be for a Dima song; who I beleive are under AVEX licence. However if you are thinking of an Indi Eurobeat label(sound weird just saying it), I can see where AVEX would have nothing to say. In fact;they might even become jealous upon seeing how a good protomotionalized Eurobeat video would become a big seller.

Suddenly the idea of a Eurobeat Viral vid becomes more realistic.

drnrg wrote:I was under impression the video would be for a Dima song; who I beleive are under AVEX licence. However if you are thinking of an Indi Eurobeat label(sound weird just saying it), I can see where AVEX would have nothing to say. In fact;they might even become jealous upon seeing how a good protomotionalized Eurobeat video would become a big seller.

Suddenly the idea of a Eurobeat Viral vid becomes more realistic.

Dima's released plenty of albums on non-Japanese iTunes without Avex's help, so whatever song they conjure up for a video would probably follow suit ownership-wise.

Perhaps they could withold publishing in Japan, see if Avex wants to publish/control it in Japan or not (depending on how attractive they make it for Dima, of course), and either let Avex use it (according to Dima's rules) or publish it themselves accordingly. If the song truly went viral, Dima would hold a LOT of power with that song/video as their token.

Now, they are on twitter!

http://www.twitter.com/avexsebofficial