Eurobeat Prime :: Forum

Song structures can vary,but it's the sound that is a defining element.
I think that people that blend excessively other genres into their eurobeat,delude themselves if they think the final product is eurobeat.
In Japan,they can include an obvious techno under the eurobeat trademark nowdays. I am strongly opposed to degrading the hi nrg quality and purity by overblending it with incorrect sounds and
styles. Song structure doesn't matter in hi nrg that much, do whatever
u like. The problem is when they are pushing something which is more a trance or happy hardcore in sound on an audience and still claim it's eurobeat.

Vadim wrote:Song structures can vary,but it's the sound that is a defining element.
I think that people that blend excessively other genres into their eurobeat,delude themselves if they think the final product is eurobeat.
In Japan,they can include an obvious techno under the eurobeat trademark nowdays. I am strongly opposed to degrading the hi nrg quality and purity by overblending it with incorrect sounds and
styles. Song structure doesn't matter in hi nrg that much, do whatever
u like. The problem is when they are pushing something which is more a trance or happy hardcore in sound on an audience and still claim it's eurobeat.

Well, just as long as it's not Rn'B/hip-hop/rap influenced!!! What songs with "techno" elements do you dislike?

I think the different part of current Eurobeat structure is the repeated instrumental break ("synth," or whatever you want to call it), for one thing on a 3-4 minute track it (along with the sometimes long "intro") pushes the first chorus beyond 1 minute (so it's a sort of early peak in the song instead?) Moreover it pushes that synth sound to the fore, in other genres that type of lead sound is considered tacky and would never be used. But that's definitely a signature part of the style.

Exact structure is not important (to me), but having a structured song is. The whole song written around the chorus so it approaches it and the chorus is the "payoff". Styles like Rn'B/hip-hop/rap are built much more around a "groove" and with more "ad-libbed" vocals on top.

OTOH, the "aggressive" Eurobeat tracks are quite different and I'd almost question if they are really the same style? Similar rhythm but in the end quite different sound and approach?

Style is going to change with time, might even say needs to take a few chances and experiments here and there, but my priorities lie on having a properly written song, strong synth leads and sequenced backing parts, lush backing vocals, and overall polished sound, not "unplugged" style or gritty loops with record scratch sounds.

That all said... (or just to be clear) I definitely agree that it's the "sound" and not the order of the song sections that makes it Eurobeat.

Well, just as long as it's not Rn'B/hip-hop/rap influenced!!! What songs with "techno" elements do you dislike?

eurobeat is different from the classical pwl hi nrg and italo by this minor
absortion of things from other genres.So,I am not against it,I just don't wish to see a diterioration of a latest hi nrg style(eurobeat) into apparent
techno. Techno is what *killed the hi nrg star* in the early 90-s
everywhere except for Japan, u know...
There were many later songs from saifam,vibration that sounded more like happy hardcore,techno, than hi nrg eurobeat. I recall a recent SCP
tune that sounded techno. It's Vivi *just for me* I believe from seb 163.
Trance strings are just not what u put in hi nrg music...!!
I loved the melody(I preffer pretty dance melodies like this to many boring pwlish hi nrg,pop, or rock melodies that came out so much in eurobeat.But I am against overblending the arrangements with techno as it's a sign of an obvious excessive commercialism,which is destructive.
Rock always sounds like rock,nobody ever cared to blend it's traditional
sounds into something else. But hi nrg is always picked on and not permitted to sound fully in it's own way(yes exactly the 80-s way!).
Rock still is allowed to sound exactly the way it sounded in past decades,
but hi nrg is ever a subject to rooting out and replacement with other genres.

Hi nrg form (genre) had many styles,they varied in song structures,
arrangements,melodies,but they all were based on this classic
80-s sound with prefference towards digital acoustically sounding synth
sounds as opposed to the analog sounds that dominates techno.
There was hi nrg style(within hi nrg genre) that PWL made a mainstream worldwide;eurodisco(disco fox,bohlen sound) that Germany developed;
italo disco was adapted by numerous nations outside of italy.
Eurobeat proved the most successfull one because D.R. was a smart
guy, and other producers of hi nrg in Italy followed his lead.
Advent of techno annihilated continental hi nrg and german style,and
italian eurobeat survived that holocoust only by sticking to Avex in Japan.

My point is that hi nrg survives by remaining hi nrg, so in overblending
lies the repeat of horrors of the 90-s and discarding by labels of the genre in favor of real techno. If so little differs in sound in eurobeat with techno,than why japanese labels would waste their profits by sticking to eurobeat at all..?

Vadim wrote: If so little differs in sound in eurobeat with techno,than why japanese labels would waste their profits by sticking to eurobeat at all..?

The most important point for Japanese is whether the songs are singable or not. You know, Japanese ppl care so much for singing that Karaoke was invented. This is what opens up a wide gap between Eurobeat and other electronic dance music. I've never heard anyone Japanese covered Techno tracks and nobody would like to sing some Techno tracks (oh, I used to sing The Real Thing by Two Unlimited, though. lol), in the meanwhile lots of Eurobeat songs have been covered by various artists. I sing Dark In The Night everytime I go to Karaoke.

oresama-chan wrote: I sing Dark In The Night everytime I go to Karaoke.

So Eurobeat kareoke DOES exist?! I cry everytime I go to Karaoke here and there's no Eurobeat to sing. All the latest j-pop and k-pop in the world, but no Eurobeat

Certainly. Currently following songs are available on DAM (one of Karaoke suppliers) machines.

SPEEDWAY / NIKO
NIGHT OF FIRE / NIKO
1 FOR THE MONEY 2 FOR THE SHOW / NIKO
KINGDOM OF ROCK / DAVE RODGERS
STAY THE NIGHT / DAVE RODGERS
THE FINAL COUNTDOWN / DAVE RODGERS
I WANNA DANCE / DOMINO
MICKEY MOUSE MARCH (EUROBEAT VER) / DOMINO

NOT FOR SALE / GO 2
FUNKY FUNLOVER / GO 2
BOOM BOOM FIRE / D.ESSEX
ANNIVERSARY / DAVE，DOMINO & VIRGINELLE
I NEED YOUR LOVE / DAVE SIMON
BURNING DESIRE / MEGA NRG MAN
ROMEO & JULIET / LOLITA
NO ONE SLEEP IN TOKYO / EDO BOYS
PLAY THE MUSIC / ACE
SHY GUN / ODA
PISTOL MAN / GARCON
MY SWEET BANANA / GO GO GIRLS
HOT VAMPIRE / GO GO GIRLS
CYBER DANCE / GO GO GIRLS
LOVE GENERATION / SUZY LAZY
HORROR FANTASY / SCREAM TEAM
CRAZY FOR LOVE / DUSTY
STAY THE NIGHT / DUSTY
I BELIEVE IN YOU / DAVE & DOMINO
ALE' JAPAN / DAVE RODGERS
DEJA VU / DAVE RODGERS
EUROBEAT / DR.LOVE
PARAPARA PARADISE / DOMINO
DELTADANCE.COM / NEWFIELD - MORONI - SINCLAIRE
SUNDAY / NUAGE
KISS ME KISS ME BABE / VIRGINELLE
LUCKY TANGO / VIRGINELLE
velfarre 2000 / BAZOOKA GIRLS
ORIGINAL SIN / POWERFUL T.
CRAZY FOR YOU / PIZZA GIRL
777 / FASTWAY
NUMBER ONE / FASTWAY
BANDOLERO COMANCHERO / FRANZ TORNADO AND THE "MAD COW" GIRLS
SHADOWS IN THE NIGHT / PRINCESS F
DARK IN THE NIGHT / MAIO & CO
DANCER / MAKO
TSUNAMI COMES / MAD MAX
NIGHT CLUBBIN' / MATT LAND
FEVER THE NIGHT / MATT LAND
YOU CAN LIGHT MY FIRE / MADISON
MONEY GO! / MARKO POLO
EXPRESS LOVE / MEGA NRG MAN
FIRE / MEGA NRG MAN
DREAMIN' OF YOU / LOLITA
WANNA BE YOUR EMOTION / LOLITA
SUGAR BABY / ALEXIS
TAKE MY BREATH AWAY / ACE
FANTASISTA! / ACE
EASY BUSY / KIKI & KIKA
JAM JAM JAM / KIKI & KIKA
KING AND QUEEN / KING & QUEEN
HE-HEY DANCIN' / KING & QUEEN
VIRTUAL LOVE / KEN MARTIN
WILD REPUTATION / THE BIG BROTHER
NEW DAY / SANDY BEE
NOBODY KNOWS / GINO CARIA
BURNING LOVE / D-ESSEX
KAMIKAZE / DJ.NRG
TORA TORA TORA / DOMINO
IKE IKE / TRI-STAR
MADE OF FIRE / NIKO
FANTASY / VIRGINELLE
HOT LOVE & EMOTION / VIRGINELLE
MYSTERY IN LOVE / VIRGINELLE
HARMONY / VALENTINA
BIG BROTHER / FASTWAY
MONEY GO ROUND / FASTWAY
CABALLERO WITH SOMBLERO / FRANZ TORNADO AND BAZOOKA GIRL
SUPER EURO FLASH / FRANZ "V.I.P." TORNADO & BAZOOKA "T.V.C." GIRL
GANGURO / FRANZ "MAD COW" TORNADO AND THE YAMANBA-GALS
TECHNOTRONIC FLIGHT / PRONCESS F.
JOHNNY GO / VOLTA & GABBANA
ROCK'N ROLL SUPERSTAR / MIKE SKANNER
BIG MOUTH / MIKE HAMMER
SEVENTIES / MEGA NRG MAN
MEGATON MAN / MEGA NRG MAN
LOVE IS DANGER / LINDA ROSS
EVERYBODY DANCE / LOLITA
TRY ME / LOLITA
SEX CRIME / ODA
HURRICANE / KAREN
GIMME THE COUNT / GO GO GIRLS
YESTERDAY / CHERRY
KILLER / DAVE SIMON
MIKADO / DAVE Mc LOUD
SPACE BOY / DAVE RODGERS
INCREDIBLE LOVE / DE LA VEGA
GOTCHA! / DOMINO
PLAY WITH THE NUMBERS
POPTEEN / DOMINO
DON'T WANNA LOSE YOU BABE / NUAGE
LIKE A VIRGINE / VIRGINELLE
BUGABUGA CHEW CHEW / BOOGABOO
NO RETURN / FASTWAY
BABE FOLLOW ME / HELENA
FOOLING WITH YOUR HEART / LISA JOHNSON
SUPER EUROBEAT presents PARAPARA SPECIAL MEDLEY VOL.1
SUPER EUROBEAT presents PARAPARA SPECIAL MEDLEY VOL.2
SUPER EUROBEAT presents PARAPARA SPECIAL MEDLEY VOL.3

oresama-chan wrote:Certainly. Currently following songs are available on DAM (one of Karaoke suppliers) machines.

(big long list of songs)

WTF...?

Damn, why can't the boxes HERE have those in their collection...

I'm just stuck with each time trying to remember the English lyrics to stuff like Hot Limit or My Sweet Darlin'...

Vadim wrote:eurobeat is different from the classical pwl hi nrg and italo by this minor absortion of things from other genres.So,I am not against it,I just don't wish to see a diterioration of a latest hi nrg style(eurobeat) into apparent techno.

OK... I'll get to the rest of your post later. But for now I should say I love Hi-NRG. One of my favourite songs on the SEB series is "Heart Breaker" (Mike Hammer).

but they all were based on this classic 80-s sound with prefference towards digital acoustically sounding synth sounds as opposed to the analog sounds that dominates techno.

Woah... ever heard a Roland Jupiter? (I think several of you here, creating Eurobeat, might be interested in this.)

http://www.thomaslaskowski.com/jupiter/jup6demo.mp3

(Pardon me while I wipe the drool off the floor! )

As you can hear, many types of sounds possible. Some lush and fat, some more aggressive.

OK... I'll get to the rest of your post later.

o.k.

Woah... ever heard a Roland Jupiter? (I think several of you here, creating Eurobeat, might be interested in this.)

I used to collect synths. I had both jp6 and jp8. Unfortunately,
analog synths of yesteryear don't stay working long,and
finding service and parts is very difficult and very expensive.
Great strings,basses,brasses and pads for hi nrg on jupiter,
but such instruments were not used much in hi nrg because digital
synths had wider range of more acoustic sounds. Analog synths can sound acoustic,but digital synths can manage more convincing acoustic sounds and have many sampled waves of real acoustic instruments.
It's not the instrument,but what sounds u choose to get from it,really.

Vadim wrote:I used to collect synths. I had both jp6 and jp8. Unfortunately,analog synths of yesteryear don't stay working long,and
finding service and parts is very difficult and very expensive.

Absolutely agree, it's a huge problem. Unless you want to buy an Alesis Andromeda (or spend enough money to buy a car on a modular system), you're more or less out of luck today. In the end it's a lot more convenient and cheaper to go with plug-ins though.

Great strings,basses,brasses and pads for hi nrg on jupiter,
but such instruments were not used much in hi nrg because digital
synths had wider range of more acoustic sounds. Analog synths can sound acoustic,but digital synths can manage more convincing acoustic sounds and have many sampled waves of real acoustic instruments.
It's not the instrument,but what sounds u choose to get from it,really.

Totally. But most of the sounds on Hi-NRG always sounded "artificial" to me. Some of the sounds from the late 80's and early 90's moved, say, towards brass sounds off Korg M1 but all those "digital" sounds, like the more "Fantasia"-like sounds, always sounded more "fake" to me. (This is a positive thing as far as I'm concerned.) Later I think things moved towards JD-900, JP-8000 and various so-called "VA's".

The most important point for Japanese is whether the songs are singable or not.

There is a flood of very singable vocal trance,bubble gum,happy hardcore
(european techno in a full song form) that saturates a european club or dance music market. Melodies and songs are very strong and can stand to competing with eurobeat very easily. Once Japan's karaoke or cover industry opens up to that,eurobeat may not retain it's former popularity.
Techno genre has more fashionable sounds for today's audience
than traditional eurobeat,and vocal trance and some other styles
of pop oriented techno have strong melodies and songwriting.
Hi nrg can't compete with such stuff in Europe,so it's not produced there.
There is only one active team in Germany that makes hi nrg,in a german style. They even got one album out in 2005, but future is uncertain for them. Another former powerhouse of this genre,U.K. has no active hi nrg teams. Even newly ressurected PWL are not touching this sound in 2000-s.

Vadim wrote:There is only one active team in Germany that makes hi nrg,in a german style. They even got one album out in 2005, but future is uncertain for them.

Who is that?

Another former powerhouse of this genre,U.K. has no active hi nrg teams. Even newly ressurected PWL are not touching this sound in 2000-s.

You might be aware of the backlash against SAW in the UK. Even today...

Brief search on Google (news):

The Independent, 16th April 2006: "From the start, they were always one of the more interesting pop acts, launching themselves not with some piece of shiny sub-Stock Aitken Waterman inanity but with the sultry, thoughtful "Overload"."
The Independent, 7th May 2006: "Back at the cusp of the 1990s, conveyor-belt pop genuinely appeared to be moribund, its gene pool weakened by years of reliance on Stock Aitken Waterman, and mortally wounded by the triple prongs of acid, baggy and grunge."

You can ALWAYS find one article or another doing a Google news search that mentions SAW and just how awful they were. Granted, Pete Waterman (unfortunately) went on to do Pop Idol and other TV shows, so he's a celebrity, but considering it was 16 years ago when SAW were last having hits, that's astonishing.

Totally. But most of the sounds on Hi-NRG always sounded "artificial" to me.

Those are sounds mostly from digital synths.Synths can use sampled
waves but they don't play acoustic sounds exactly like orchestras,
all sounds are merely approximations. Sampler will serve for
very close reproductions. Bottom line is that hi nrg descended from
orchestral arrangements of 70-s disco,that's why it requires
sounds to have more acoustic nature as compared to techno
that moves as far away from anything resembling acoustic
instrument as possible. You still edit the sounds and make them
more interesting, it's just that sound world of techno is very different
from the one of hi nrg. Purest hi nrg was made in the 80-s,because back
then their sound was unblended with techno.

Some of the sounds from the late 80's and early 90's moved, say, towards brass sounds off Korg M1 but all those "digital" sounds, like the more "Fantasia"-like sounds, always sounded more "fake" to me.

The thing is that you can't beat digital synths for bells-strings-brasses.
Hi nrg soundworld simply revolves around those kinds of sounds.
It's not about sounding precisely orchestral but about having
unique sounds retaining resemblance to orchestral. I techno - u filter
stuff to death, in hi nrg u just try to make acousic sounds intreresing.

Later I think things moved towards JD-900,

JD series are fully digital, they are great for anything hi nrg.

JP-8000 and various so-called "VA's".

You can get 80-s sound from them just like from real analog,
u just need to keep in mind that they have few waves( just
like analog) and will not not match a rompler for bells-brasses-harps-cellos-woodwind-whatever.. They play fat basses and moog leads
better than typical digital synths,though.

Who is that?

They are called S.I.B.(Systems In Blue). They are the only team
outside of Italy that makes hi nrg commercially.

You might be aware of the backlash against SAW in the UK. Even today...

Press is agressive towards pwl past because pwl abondoned hi nrg
style more than a decade ago. They attack this eurobeat related music
style because nobody cares to promote or defend it in Europe anymore.
PWL can still write great tunes,but they sound rather commercial today.[/quote]

Vadim wrote:They are called S.I.B.(Systems In Blue). They are the only team
outside of Italy that makes hi nrg commercially.

OK, thanks. I'll investigate their material.

Press is agressive towards pwl past because pwl abondoned hi nrg
style more than a decade ago. They attack this eurobeat related music
style because nobody cares to promote or defend it in Europe anymore.
PWL can still write great tunes,but they sound rather commercial today.

They attack because no-one cares to promote or defend it? <confused> I always thought they attacked because they hate the whole approach behind the music, you know, good, lush and uplifting sounding music, they want music that protests wars or something like that. Shouldn't it be long forgotten music by now?

Well, PWL now is totally different than PWL of the past. Stock/Aitken left in the early 90's. The Steps stuff was from totally different producers/writers. Otherwise, PWL has always been about "commercial" music.