Super Eurobeat 187

[valiant]

What are you talking about? Time is a dead horse (everything sounding generic and almost identical...*ahem* remakes)

[zoupzuop2]

A-Beat C is in its final death throes. They've got to go(i doubt that will happen any time soon).

OH NOES ABEATC IZ SLUMPING IT MUZT DIE

...okay. ABeatC has been in a pretty deep rut for some time now. Granted, it's a long time to be in such a rut, too.

Therefore, they should stop? Just drop the ball and give up? How arrogant. They stopped producing smash hits every few SEB's; therefore, they are of no more use to us? What kind of thinking is that?

Yes. The 'new' ABeatC sound is poor; it sticks to poor sounds (some of them detuned, which REALLY kills it for me), the mixing and vocal work has, as of late, lacked life... maybe, some change IS in order. Perhaps their track count SHOULD drop, at least for the reason that they should re-experiment and maybe return somewhat more to their older-school style (some lighter synths, less tinny soundworlds and more Dave would be nice).
But to say that they should just give up is a SLAP IN THE FACE, and nothing less. You say what you say not just to an "internet forum", not just to faces who may even know these people, but just as much to the LABEL ITSELF, and ALL ITS STAFF, regardless of if it's able/willing to see it or not. Would you say this to the very people that STILL put in effort to make these tracks? Would you waltz right up to Dave Rodgers or Luigi Raimondi and say, "Hey, your recent work has been really poor, you should stop making Eurobeat"? Heck, no! You'd (like any one of us) pee your pants out of delight for being in front of THE DAVE RODGERS! Even if he's been lackluster lately, that's still our guy! That's still one of our idols!
I personally still thank ABeatC for bothering with a genre that is clearly not as profitable or popular as it once was. They COULD stop doing Eurobeat altogether and just do Hyper Techno or whatever the heck they may be doing (I wouldn't mind seeing more Dave Rodgers rock, honestly-- ooh! The idea of Dave METAL is something that riles my inner fanboy). But they keep producing Eurobeat, because it means something to them, and it means something to us. Slump or no, GGM-schism or no, they're still ABeatC. They're still a crew of musicians, composers, producers, vocalists, etc. The fact that they haven't given up is worthy of my awe, if not my respect at the LEAST.

How ungrateful, to say they should give up. If Delta suddenly hit a slump, would you say THEY should stop making Eurobeat? Hi-NRG Attack had a slump (lamers such as Bazoocow really up the ante in lack-of-originality from an otherwise very original label). Did THEY stop? SHOULD they have? What about Time? THEY'VE had a period of suck-age (when that is, depends on whom you ask). SCP? ...well. SCP hasn't really hit any big slumps YET, but if/when they do, will we clamor for THEIR ending? Sinclairestyle has yet to TRULY impress most of us. So, CLEARLY, they should just quit while they're ahead, right? WRONG.
Why would it make sense that they NOT stop? Because, for all their slumps, current, past or future, it's still our cast and crew. They're still the ones that make the genre we listen to what it is, HOW it is, and how long it has lasted.

To be honest I STILL get giddy when I see the Dave Rodgers title appear next to a song in the tracklists. Even if it's not great, it's good to see he's STILL GOING AFTER NEARLY 20 YEARS. That's a HUGE length of time for a single genre, MUCH LESS one that has seen the limelight as much as it has, or even tasted Guinness world records. MOST artists get bored of a genre, or cease to find it profitable, by about 6 years in. ABeatC is still producing, after being one of the first labels in the genre.

Next time, I very strongly urge you to think about who's effected by what you say; not just forum posters, not just fans, but the VERY PEOPLE whom you may be requesting to stop producing. Dislike the music if you must, even I struggle to find much quality in recent ABeatC productions, but don't you DARE suggest they give up. Little more could be more devastating for the genre as a whole.

[valiant]

^ Wow, someone has a lot to say

Yeah, I agree, it is very stupid to want a label to fall off the face of the earth. Afterall, Abeat is a big part of eurobeat history

Some fans are just really selfish

[para_rigby]

In my opinion, there hasn't been a big hit from A-BEAT C since 169 (yeah, I liked "Welcome to the Beach", but that's just IMHO). I see the huge slump they have, but they shouldn't really get kicked off (TIME as well here too).

Here are some thoughts I have:
1) They need to bring back the energy that had from SEB 80-150. I think this is their prime era on the SEB series (of course, they did wonderfully on Maharajah). Hell, Annerley had a great discography back in the early days of A-BEAT C, but her energetic vocals have disappeared since "Say Yeah" on SEB 169.

2) Despite the schism between A-BEAT C & GGM, I think it would be wise to bring in new vocalists. Manuel, Lolita, and Mega NRG Man seem more suited to the new sounds that GGM has provided. Hell, Avex should bring some unreleased stuff from Matt Land, Karen, Meri, and Giada out of the SEB vault if they do have any.

3) Hasn't A-BEAT C been doing SEB albums since the very very early days anyways? Maybe you can dry up with creativity?

4) I don't know how Avex decides which songs to put out on each album, but don't you think those people can tell the difference between a hit and filler? It annoys the crap out of me because I'M SURE that AVEX can pick amazing unreleased songs from the A-BEAT C catalouge now!

----
As to the comment earlier about if fans of DELTA & SCP. Hell, I believe with the improved teamwork at DELTA, they've managed to make an incredible comeback in the last two years. Back in the day, how many people hear would say that they loved almost every release from them? IMHO, not many.

As for SCP, you totally have fans that are hardcore with this label. Besides some TIME hardcore fans, SCP has somehow managed to be one of most accessible labels to eurobeat fans and those in the Initial D group.

Just some thoughts.

[#Infinity]

1) They need to bring back the energy that had from SEB 80-150. I think this is their prime era on the SEB series (of course, they did wonderfully on Maharajah). Hell, Annerley had a great discography back in the early days of A-BEAT C, but her energetic vocals have disappeared since "Say Yeah" on SEB 169.

Yes. Unfortunately, it seems that Giancarlo Pasquini has been very experimental with a kind of artsy trancy style in attempt to keep up with the other labels, but the problem is that it just doesn't work with eurobeat at all, leaving his productions sounding dull, boring, and especially outdated. He needs a new eurobeat producer to join or something.

2) Despite the schism between A-BEAT C & GGM, I think it would be wise to bring in new vocalists. Manuel, Lolita, and Mega NRG Man seem more suited to the new sounds that GGM has provided. Hell, Avex should bring some unreleased stuff from Matt Land, Karen, Meri, and Giada out of the SEB vault if they do have any.

Well, they have been introducing new artists (Bea, Pink Star, etc.) and bringing back older ones (Ace Warrior, Powerful T., Matt Land, etc.), but I don't think it does any good because the major problem is how the label treats those artists. All of the above vocalists are very tallented and have great eurobeat voices, but the songs they've been getting have generally been lacking the inspiration or thrust of their older releases. Even Annerley sounded fantastic on tracks such as Say Yeah! and With Your Photograph, but lately the stuff she's been getting is mushy at best.

3) Hasn't A-BEAT C been doing SEB albums since the very very early days anyways? Maybe you can dry up with creativity?

This could be the problem, but from what I've noticed, the downfall occured directly after Gatti and Olivia left A-Beat C. Giancarlo Pasquini just seems bored on his own, struggling to come up with fresh, new ideas or good production.

4) I don't know how Avex decides which songs to put out on each album, but don't you think those people can tell the difference between a hit and filler? It annoys the crap out of me because I'M SURE that AVEX can pick amazing unreleased songs from the A-BEAT C catalouge now!

I don't know about that. Based on how much I dislike their current style (which just keeps getting worse and worse, even though it actually worked on more energetic songs such as Midnight Love and Into The Daylight - their songs are just sounding more and more tired as time goes on), it's highly doubtful that their other numbers are much better.

[drnrg]

What gets me is that as soon as someone mentions one negative aspect about a label, right away someone wants to boot them off the series. AbeatC should in no way be taken off SEB, nor should any label for that matter.

SEB 186 was the rutts because of AbeatC and SCP, but with a little work on thier intros and revamping thier roster(this goes for AbeatC) The series could kick back into high gear. SCP has to work on thier song choices and not fall into the mushy sounds that AbeatC seems to be submitting. I say these two labels dig into thier archives and start resubmitting some of thier older material. It works wonders for DELTA with Final Destination, so why not for AbeatC?

The rest of the pack seems to be doing just fine. I really hope Dima composes some new tracks with that fire of his earlier work and Saifam can also submit better material than the silly Coo Coo sounding Eurobeat. They have a shitload of Ken Martin, Danny Rock ,etc... songs on thier catalogue that desrve an SEB debute.

I still can't believe it's only been lss than 6 cds since the amazing 179 and allready Avex is totally loosing it when choosing songs. The good news is that after 186 the only way to go is up. There is just no way 187 can be worse ,right?

[Nine]

I know I've said ABeatC has been doing poorly, but from my POV they aren't doing as bad as people are making it out to be.

I can name quite a few songs from AbeatC that appeared since 171 that I have enjoyed (though, most of these songs did grow on me after I slammed them):

King & Queen - Speedy Runner
Matt Land - Gunfire
Norma Sheffield - I'll Be Waiting
Nuage - Everybody Shake (though the synths in this song still give me massive headaches)
Dave Rodgers - The V.I.P. Is JP
Groove Twins - Dance Dance Monsteru
King & Queen - Say You'll Be There
Powerful T. - Into The Daylight
Annalise - With Your Photograph
Dave Rodgers Feat. Stef Burns - Red Code
Norma Sheffield - Moonshine
Domino - Cooking Boy
Nuage - Singing To The Stars
Norma Sheffield - Do You Wanna Fly

That's quite a decent list of songs. Not as big as I'd hoped it to be seeing it was from 171 to now, but really - if I felt ABeatC was dying and needed to be removed, this list won't be half as big.

[#Infinity]

I know I've said ABeatC has been doing poorly, but from my POV they aren't doing as bad as people are making it out to be.

I can name quite a few songs from AbeatC that appeared since 171 that I have enjoyed (though, most of these songs did grow on me after I slammed them):

King & Queen - Speedy Runner
Matt Land - Gunfire
Norma Sheffield - I'll Be Waiting
Nuage - Everybody Shake (though the synths in this song still give me massive headaches)
Dave Rodgers - The V.I.P. Is JP
Groove Twins - Dance Dance Monsteru
King & Queen - Say You'll Be There
Powerful T. - Into The Daylight
Annalise - With Your Photograph
Dave Rodgers Feat. Stef Burns - Red Code
Norma Sheffield - Moonshine
Domino - Cooking Boy
Nuage - Singing To The Stars
Norma Sheffield - Do You Wanna Fly

That's quite a decent list of songs. Not as big as I'd hoped it to be seeing it was from 171 to now, but really - if I felt ABeatC was dying and needed to be removed, this list won't be half as big.

Not 171, but 176 was the first point when I felt that A-Beat C has consistently sucked each album. Most of those songs you listed are from the earlier 170's period, and I don't think most people would agree with you about Norma. They're consistently getting worse each album - even their 179 performances look divine compared to their tracks off of 186 for example. It really seems to me that GP doesn't understand at all what eurobeat is all about anymore and is just producing the genre merely for the sake of it more and more, and it shows based on the way the label has declined over the past year.

[Jay]

It could be just an 'off' phase that Pasquini's having like some producers did, such as Sinclaire and Dall'Ora, and I really hope that's all it is. The thing is, even if Pasquini wanted to take a break to refresh his image, A-Beat C would probably need to be suspended from the SEB series (unless Avex is willing to release older material). I doubt he'd be willing to do that since it's clear he tries so hard to uphold the integrity of the label, even if it takes A-Beat C down into the slumps. I'm pleased A-Beat C is at least trying to renew their image with new female artists, which was DESPERATELY needed, but it's not enough. All that will do is prolong the problem as Betty and Bea suit the dull A-Beat C theme all too well.

Another producer would definitely help since it's depressing to listen to a lot of their tracks these days. What happened to their 150's hits like Shout, Let's Go Dee Jay, Dancing Around The World and Go Go Money? I'm not flicking through the SEB booklets to check but I'm sure Oliva helped produce most if not all of these tracks. We're feeling his absence more and more from A-Beat C as time goes on.

As to the comment earlier about if fans of DELTA & SCP. Hell, I believe with the improved teamwork at DELTA, they've managed to make an incredible comeback in the last two years. Back in the day, how many people hear would say that they loved almost every release from them? IMHO, not many.

I HATED Delta during the 150's. Sinclaire was all soaked out of creativity and he went through the dull phase that Pasquini and Dall'Ora are experiencing. Now he's back with his own label, and Let's Go Wild! seems interesting enough to welcome him back to the fray. It's just that Pasquini and Dall'Ora don't have as much freedom as Sinclaire did to just leave their labels and take a break; Delta still had Newfield and Moroni at the time to carry on the legacy.

The reason for Delta's recent upsurge is undoubtedly their variety in producers. This is something Pasquini and Dall'Ora should consider, but I don't see that happening.

[Nine]

Most of those songs you listed are from the earlier 170's period, and I don't think most people would agree with you about Norma.

Okay, then just take away:
Dance Dance Monsteru (not many people like the song but I do haha)
Say You'll Be There
Into the Daylight

It's still a decent list. About Norma though... that's why I started my argument with "my POV."

Plus, a lot of ABeatC tracks I left out because I disliked, a lot of people would have in their lists. Like with most of the King & Queen and Nuage songs that were released - they received quite good reviews. Same with some Annerley songs. *shrugs*

Sure, ABeatC's quality is suffering I do agree with that, but after taking a good close look at what they've put out there, I think I was just being too critical...

[zoupzuop2]

The reason for Delta's recent upsurge is undoubtedly their variety in producers. This is something Pasquini and Dall'Ora should consider, but I don't see that happening.

You... make a great point. It's pretty much JUST Dave and Luigi Raimondi in Rodgers Studios. That can't be conducive for producing a LOT of QUALITY music; the pressure's only split in half, not into thirds or quarters or...

When it's just one or two folks responsible, they can either spew a lot of tracks (with varying levels of garbage) and hope that one or two do very well, or focus on FAR less tracks and hope they become quality (which I doubt they can afford). I imagine the reasons for producing a LOT of lower-quality tracks are more than we can guess at. Maybe they have legal obligations to produce X tracks in Y time?

It's clear that Dave has done the former... in any case it's a symptom of trying to do too much as one man. Maybe a "break" of some sort is needed, but... only if he comes back from it. I mean, when was the last time we heard of him taking a break or vacation? Maybe it's due time to at least TRY it. I mean, that's not an insult; we all need a vacation at some point to recharge, and Dave's still got some spark to him. But if he doesn't recharge soon, things'll stay as they are... and now how they could be.

[Ricfiam]

Where are the samples?

[zoupzuop2]

Where are the samples?

On an Avex Employee's computer somewhere. (We don't know)

[drnrg]

zoupzuop2

Jay wrote:

The reason for Delta's recent upsurge is undoubtedly their variety in producers. This is something Pasquini and Dall'Ora should consider, but I don't see that happening.

You... make a great point. It's pretty much JUST Dave and Luigi Raimondi in Rodgers Studios. That can't be conducive for producing a LOT of QUALITY music; the pressure's only split in half, not into thirds or quarters or...

When it's just one or two folks responsible, they can either spew a lot of tracks (with varying levels of garbage) and hope that one or two do very well, or focus on FAR less tracks and hope they become quality (which I doubt they can afford). I imagine the reasons for producing a LOT of lower-quality tracks are more than we can guess at. Maybe they have legal obligations to produce X tracks in Y time?

It's clear that Dave has done the former... in any case it's a symptom of trying to do too much as one man. Maybe a "break" of some sort is needed, but... only if he comes back from it. I mean, when was the last time we heard of him taking a break or vacation? Maybe it's due time to at least TRY it. I mean, that's not an insult; we all need a vacation at some point to recharge, and Dave's still got some spark to him. But if he doesn't recharge soon, things'll stay as they are... and now how they could be.

Interesting point, but how do explain the fact the HRG Attack doesn't seem to be phased by this at all. They have basically been Rimonti, Accantino and Festari for a long TIME and still push out hit after hit.

I say no excuse, especially when one has been in the Eurobeat/Italo scene for as long as Pasquinni. Then again, as Nine already mentioned, Pasquinni still dishes out a decent amount of hits. I could easily make a list as long as his, but with different songs.

[SuperEuroJimmy]

Interesting point, but how do explain the fact the HRG Attack doesn't seem to be phased by this at all. They have basically been Rimonti, Accantino and Festari for a long TIME and still push out hit after hit.

That, my friend, is just a matter of taste and likings. I personally think the HRG Attack sound has been the same for a fricking long time. So long, it even started to <strike>Panu</strike> bore the hell out of me.
Then again, I also don't really agree on the opinion that A-Beat C is going down the dumps. They're just trying new stuff, which is all fine with me. I can immagine GP wanting to try out something new, instead of just rehashing the old stuff over and over and over again, as I feel the folks at HRG Attack are doing... :\

Also, somewhat back ontopic. I just pre'd 187 because I didn't yet. I thought you might wanted to know that. :]!