Eurobeat Prime :: Forum

jeurobeat wrote:

Anthony McBazooka wrote:So what's your problem then? On the one hand you say, you don't do it for money, on the other hand, you're angry if someone listens to your songs for free?

You, among others, ignore the real problem. It is up to the intellectual property owner how and where the songs are published. The IP owner may choose in what region their songs can be bought (whether you like it or not). It is certainly not up to you to take decisions with respect to something that isn't your IP. You disrespect those decisions. If the IP owner wanted to give the songs away for free in some region or everywhere, they would do it. But they don't want that, so the songs are not available for free. Copying those songs without paying for them is plain theft of intellectual property. If Dr Gabriel says he doesn't do it for the money, then it still is not a permit to steal his IP.

I don't ignore anything. I already wrote something about intellectual property. It's up to you to read my posts completely before you reply.
I don't base what I think is wrong or right on laws but on my own judgement.
Feel free to sue me, if that's all you care about.

Anthony McBazooka wrote:How can you be sure it's even a loss? How can you know if someone would have bought it anyway? What about the poor? Don't they have a right to listen to great music too?

That really is a lame excuse. It is about IP, not about whether someone would have bought the song anyway. You don't want to pay? No song for you. It is as simple as that. Not the other way round. It is the IP owner's decision. You could just respect that decision and either buy the song or don't listen to it.

Again, I'm against this capitalist crap, so why should I justify it?
Okay, then it's your right to decide it … still no need for me to agree with it. The only lame thing here is your weak argumentation.
If all opinions should based on following the existing law in first place, there wouldn't be any sense in discussion and there wouldn't be any progress in any society. So please cut that bullshit and come with real arguments, not with „oh, but there is a law, so you have to accept it“-crap. I only have to accept it by force not because of any good argument. If you like it that way, nice for you, but don't tell others on what they should base their opinion on.

And Lebon is right, no one gives a damn about marketing, just complaining everywhere. But it's not enough to create great music if you want to be heard, you have to take care about your stuff getting spread. You can't just lay back and wait. But that's what most Eurobeat producers do.

Then it's their choice. Another lame excuse for justifying theft.

Okay, then it's their choice, but they don't fucking need to complain about not getting money, when it's THEIR choice to not sell the music. That's basic logic.

Also it is completely ridiculous to defend the intellectual property of music where half of the melodies are stolen from other songs (without even mentioning the original composers in the credits).
Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with that, but anyone who thinks file sharing of Eurobeat is an evil thing and doesn't have a problem with composers taking melodies of others even without crediting has double standards.

Crockett wrote:Why Avex Trax should after almost 30 years when appeared the Eurobeat term expand the offer being satisfied, doing this symbolically, for respect, having mail order, to markets, where Eurobeat is and was “foreign, unknown or disliked”?

Because people want to buy and listen? Again, they are allowed to refuse to offer their property by law, but they should just not complain then if no one buys it and people find other ways to get the music.

Because of me, you, or perchaps you?

Yes. For example.

LOGICALLY NOT.

What kind of logic is that? You don't even give any explanation.

And that’s why born the idea to defend illegal links forming losses, or blame all around but not these, who make rips? We’re talking about specified electronic genre from specified country, not about purchasing bread, that create suddenly new markets and hyper marketing…

I don't understand what you're writing here.

Regret to the artist who just wants to pay AT LEAST the basical costs and FEEL HONORABLE SATISFACTION, that his loyal fans don’t need piracy first to support him by money later.. Or never.

Again, if you don't care about how people who are willing to pay can even have access to your music, you should not complain.

Anthony McBazooka wrote:Because people want to buy and listen?

First you said:

Anthony McBazooka wrote:It's simply because people lost interest in Eurobeat and that's it.

.............................................................................................................................

Crockett wrote:We’re talking about specified electronic genre from specified country, not about purchasing bread, that create suddenly new markets and hyper marketing...

For you it seems so easy like build a bakery and sell bread - THE PRODUCT COMMONLY NEEDED, NECESSARY.

Japan is Asia, different culture, mentality, way of life, habits. Like I said foreign, unknown, disliked.

The fans, DJs who listened hundreds or thousands electronic genre songs from 80's, 90's, 00's have nothing to say about Eurobeat and don't want to discover the same Italians discography, because is designed to the country on the other side of the globe.

We must focus on majority, not the lovers of Para Para, Manga, seekers of new experiences etc. Music for this market isn't exception. And like I said, THE PRIME AND THE ONE AND ONLY MARKET SINCE ALWAYS is already after golden years of Eurobeat.

You're trying to say, that for single enthusiasts, closed small groups, 25, 30 years after, when it’s passion and symbolical releasing, such musical product for untypical, specified market should reborn in Europe, America where was from the beginning dead?

Ok, so find a person, who will go to Tokyo, to Avex Trax headquarters and say them in japanese "Wake up, you have two new markets, where you can earn much, instead of waiting for traditional 500-700 copies." Otherwise wishful thinking.

Crockett wrote:And that’s why born the idea to defend illegal links forming losses, or blame all around but not these, who make rips?

Somebody who is from outside of the main market doesn't want to pay shipment, waiting so long for international post, so you simply in my opinion try to defend or look for arguments, that file sharing is good. Files, which aren't for sale separately (only iTunes Japan), but all together on compact disc. Selling brand new song is silly "idea of getting rich just by owning the rights". So what for CDs, legal digitial files anytime?

Once, two, or three times, but no more the artists will make next volume for free, if from these 500-700 copies they will not be able to pay for basical things, required to keep passion. Who has such attitude to work 8 hours in other occupation and from these earnings pay up vocalists, rental studio, not from profits from sale?

The conclusion - you imagine some kind worldwide revolution, big engagement of publisher company, even the situation has changed to worse on the leading market, and Japan music will stay only Japan music.

This is not typically against the other fans, I want to understand and I can understand artists - Roberto Gabrielli here, who after break returned, seeing unpaid copies listened 60 times in the day of premiere. Disappointment, zero satisfaction and apprehension how long it may be continued this way having passion and all best willingness.

Anthony McBazooka wrote:Again, I'm against this capitalist crap

Also it is completely ridiculous to defend the intellectual property of music where half of the melodies are stolen from other songs (without even mentioning the original composers in the credits).

Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with that, but anyone who thinks file sharing of Eurobeat is an evil thing and doesn't have a problem with composers taking melodies of others even without crediting has double standards.

You support free sharing of hot Eurobeat news, and parallel you're starting to suggest, that many of the composers copy melodies.

So... Did you have permission to make cover versions, which we can find on your YouTube channel and FB fan page? How it works? I thought you must have the agreement and pay the original author. Maybe in your opinion these are copies too, so next cover version of a copy isn't matter? Which author gave you green light to change the style and make a new song? Mauro Farina? Giancarlo Pasquini? SAIFAM? Contini Edizioni Musicali? I'm curious. I have credible information how much wants Mauro Farina for cooperation, so obviously without your reply I know, that you couldn't copy even one sentence of his lyrics... If I'm wrong, that nobody gave you neither permission, please forgive me. Ok?

Can you tell us, whether Hi-NRG Attack paid you for uncredited vocals? Or you had great fun and nice spent time and you were against the law and crap capitalism?

Well, perchaps you graduated musical school (I don't know), had some experience, exercises, but I can only remind, you're also quite young to play a role of some authority, make a summary of the 30 years of Eurobeat like an expert, to accuse 20 years years older professionals. Your Eurobeat is nice of course, but has everything the same sounded like hundreds tracks before. So you haven't new ideas, because that's impossible, neverending freshness and revolution, to not feel, that someone already did this similarly. The most important is to not steal and own work at studio.

In Italy like told Roberto Gabrielli theft is theft, in my country disrespect to older than myself, is for example such discussion with much more experienced artist by a younger man, who still remains in the beginning and can't understand business and needs, how to survive or move forward. Or if you really understand so for what the wall of text, you can't enforce and change the history, where is possible to sell Eurobeat.

That way my friend, telling that noone here has right and money are irrelevant at all, after next 10 years, when the last generation of Italo - Eurobeat had the golden years of career ended (being around 40 years old), you will be still at the same moment and have nothing except wishful thinking.

Rules, passion, fine, but working whole life behind somebody's back or for free doesn't give a chance for gain anything.

IDK guys, but from what I see on youtube; it looks like all that pirate issue is a thing of the past. The artists are now putting their efforts on promoting their music and youtube is one of the best stages to get people to listen to your music and getting you to purchase the stuff too.

The reason I say this, is because almost all non eurobeat bands. Indie, Alt even Rock are uploading their entire albums now adays. You can tell, cuz the uploader is either the band or the record label. bands like Atlas Genius, The Naked and Famous, The 1975, Fitz and Tantrums and the list goes on.... These are big names and if they don't have an issue with it; I seriously think the whole Pirate thing is a thing of the past.

drnrg wrote:IDK guys, but from what I see on youtube; it looks like all that pirate issue is a thing of the past. The artists are now putting their efforts on promoting their music and youtube is one of the best stages to get people to listen to your music and getting you to purchase the stuff too.

The reason I say this, is because almost all non eurobeat bands. Indie, Alt even Rock are uploading their entire albums now adays. You can tell, cuz the uploader is either the band or the record label. bands like Atlas Genius, The Naked and Famous, The 1975, Fitz and Tantrums and the list goes on.... These are big names and if they don't have an issue with it; I seriously think the whole Pirate thing is a thing of the past.

Outside of Eurobeat it is. But that's the problem with Eurobeat, even though the music has made a lot of progress, the ideas of marketing are still last century. And then there are those complaints about how it doesn't sell anymore and the ones who are being blamed for that are the last remaining fans. That's making things worse.

As my vocal work for HRG was mentioned here, well at least they use the YouTube videos for promoting the music instead of complaining.

@Crockett
No, I can't tell, if they paid me or not or anything else about the professional details. If you want informations, ask the producer, not the vocalist. If they refuse to give the information to you, you have to accept it.

If you consider honest criticism as disrespect, you have a strange notion of what respect is.

Your Eurobeat is nice of course, but has everything the same sounded like hundreds tracks before. So you haven't new ideas, because that's impossible, neverending freshness and revolution, to not feel, that someone already did this similarly. The most important is to not steal and own work at studio.

Well, show me a guitar solo like in Long and Dark Winternight on another Eurobeat song then. Show me a Eurobeat song similar to Evader, show me a Eurobeat song that uses a similar bass sound to My Name is McBazooka. Just to give you a few examples. If you make a statement like this, it's up to you to bring a proof that all these things already existed hundred times before. So, I'm waiting now for your list of songs and explanations.

It wouldn't cost Avex anything to sell SEB worldwide on the digital market. So it doesn't make sense to me at all to refuse to make it available for purchase. If you can explain me their reasons for that, it would be nice.

So... Did you have permission to make cover versions, which we can find on your YouTube channel and FB fan page? How it works? I thought you must have the agreement and pay the original author. Maybe in your opinion these are copies too, so next cover version of a copy isn't matter? Smile Which author gave you green light to change the style and make a new song? Mauro Farina? Giancarlo Pasquini? SAIFAM? Contini Edizioni Musicali? I'm curious. I have credible information how much wants Mauro Farina for cooperation, so obviously without your reply I know, that you couldn't copy even one sentence of his lyrics... If I'm wrong, that nobody gave you neither permission, please forgive me. Ok?

Well, I wasn't the one who criticised “stealing”, so you are addressing the wrong person here. But as you don't have the slightest idea of music rights, I will still at least explain some things here.
1st: I do not take a melody from another composer and say that I created it. A cover song is clearly marked as such.
2nd: You don't need to ask for a permission for a cover song, as long as you don't add other musical parts you composed yourself or add or change the lyrics.
3rd: YouTube has a rights management system which makes sure the composers and authors get their share. Also my Eurobeat Covers Vol. 1 album is distributed via Loudr who take care of rights management for selling cover songs. So everything is completely legal.

Roberto Gabrielli here, who after break returned, seeing unpaid copies listened 60 times in the day of premiere. Disappointment, zero satisfaction and apprehension how long it may be continued this way having passion and all best willingness.

Only 60 times is not much, so I could understand the disappointment for having less listeners than expected. But to be disappointed about people liking the song? You'd have to be really full of yourself then.

You support free sharing of hot Eurobeat news, and parallel you're starting to suggest, that many of the composers copy melodies.

You got it all wrong. I didn't complain about composers copying melodies, I wrote clearly that I don't have a problem with that. It's the double standards I criticised, of those who say file sharing is an evil thing but don't give a fuck about composers copying melodies without crediting the original composer.
Also I never said that I support file sharing, I just don't oppose it either.

For me enough All I had to say. Everything has been explained, I guided perhaps too general informations, but it was offtopic. Maybe this thread will be useful in the future as well. Thanks for discussion.

I decided to reply for some really important matters. Anthony McBazooka know and should understand - nothing personal. I read and answer for presented statements.

Anthony McBazooka wrote:Well, show me a guitar solo like in Long and Dark Winternight on another Eurobeat song then. Show me a Eurobeat song similar to Evader, show me a Eurobeat song that uses a similar bass sound to My Name is McBazooka

I can't understand.

You're doing a new song, you're inventing something, bass line, you're playing a new solo guitar part, so you have automatically innovation? If you would start when the old Eurobeat generation, you would base a little on classics too. Why not trying to create parallel own style? Sorry, for me again, wishful thinking with small discography in 2016.

So you're better than guys who have in SIAE registered 300, 500, 800, 1000 songs, no matter, who had brand new songs, brand new bass lines and guitar parts 30, 25, 20 years ago?

I don't get the conclusion.

Some non-sense itself. For addition this is your personal opinion about yourself.

Anthony McBazooka wrote:You got it all wrong. I didn't complain about composers copying melodies, I wrote clearly that I don't have a problem with that. It's the double standards I criticised, of those who say file sharing is an evil thing but don't give a fuck about composers copying melodies without crediting the original composer.

Continuation... I don’t get the point here as well. Who should tag and how much of previous melodies in credits? Hi-NRG from 80’s is dead music. But italian Eurobeat moves forward. Each label always had own style. Even each team. Never been before and won’t be again the characteristic style like had former Italo - Eurobeat labels thanks to only their composers.

You're looking for some originals STOLEN by Time, Asia, A.Beat-C., Delta, Hi-NRG Attack, SCP, put to songs being not cover versions. Because of similarly sounded synthesizers and influences from the older genre masters. In a few thousands songs...

You’re taking apart single songs to find one similar feature and this is what should be called theft or credited? Whatever. Even if somehow, somewhere... You're saying like about big negative trend all around during 30 years, calling double mentality another case, anger of free copies.

They continued something what was born in early 80’s.

...... And today you're continuing, you joined to their Eurobeat music, because they have earned enough to release SEB every month in the past, and thanks to all these things they survived 25 years...

There wasn’t charity and money from heaven, but passion plus logically required profits from loyal fans buying CDs in Japan, not in Europe or America.

Anthony McBazooka wrote:Only 60 times is not much, so I could understand the disappointment for having less listeners than expected. But to be disappointed about people liking the song? You'd have to be really full of yourself then.

And my conclusion. If your target is giving gifts for these who expect free download or at least worldwide sale of the in fact japanese product, or you need only personal satisfaction, it’s ok. But italian forerunners don’t have to agree with you after so many years, to change the rules, market or loose THE LAST money, because you don’t like the reality of professional production for the one specified market.

I'm not talking about opinions. I don't have any opinions. All I care about are facts. I asked you about facts. You don't provide any. So I couldn't care less about your reply.

What's your definition of innovation then if it isn't about making something new? LOL

And again, read more carefully, try at least to understand what I write before you reply. You're talking to straw men here and it really gets on my nerves.
I won't reply until you read everything again, understood what I've written and reply to exactly what I've written and not to your weird interpretations of my words. kthxbye.

Anthony McBazooka wrote:I'm not talking about opinions. I don't have any opinions. All I care about are facts. I asked you about facts. You don't provide any. So I couldn't care less about your reply.

What's your definition of innovation then if it isn't about making something new? LOL

And again, read more carefully, try at least to understand what I write before you reply. You're talking to straw men here and it really gets on my nerves.
I won't reply until you read everything again, understood what I've written and reply to exactly what I've written and not to your weird interpretations of my words. kthxbye.

Here are your quotes and my replies. I didn't start a new topic after break.

I can't find more interpretations plus my personal thoughts. These things listed above you repeated already in the topic about SEB 241.

It's up to you, what words you use, all people read your public statements and the possible criticism, dissatisfaction appear from the meaning of your very simple and clear sentences.

I told you. Don't ask me, because I'm not musician, that I should give you detailed examples about the construction of your songs. I replied already as a fan, a listener.

You're bragging some new ideas and titles. Ok... You appreciate yourself. However I feel you do that very strong. Having some single fresh “news” with unknown future unfortunately. Insuficient number to have to say much about past years reality, especially how often anyway respected older generation copied more or less some fragments of the classical oldies... Easy to make general juxtaposition.

Summarizing, copying melodies isn't for you important problem indeed (remains your accusation, opinion), but as the real artist, not me, you can easy introduce then, what label and composer hadn't own style or in which tracks, what elements were copied, pointing duration time as a proof. Because these must be credited yes?

And what this have to do with YouTube sharing and legal distribution?

I don't see the examples as well even your knowledge is bigger than mine.

Not first time a person who is producer from years hearing your Eurobeat tells, that you have quite big problem with mix stage and absolutely there is nothing new in your music.

Why you’re convinced about your high level I don’t know.

Simply, friendly, please don't play the artist, who has significant experience in professional creation and find in yourself more humble.

I remember from Facebook, you wrote about the need for innovation, not falsely praise because of a name.

But what you can offer better, being sometimes bored current Eurobeat ?

Innovation to be really proud aren't your three listed songs comparing with the latest SEB (poorly mixed in selected professional judgment), parallel so carefully paying attention what are doing the producers, who don't have to prove anything anymore after those years of historical innovations...

I remind once more, I like your music somehow for entertainment, but 4 minutes of beating your innovative bass line doesn't pretend to call the greatest hits. Where is the mood, style, arrangement being your uniqueness? I would love individuality.

The most important here in conclusion - can you promise, will you release any albums, dozens tracks with your new bass and guitars to sign yourself in the Eurobeat history?

It’s all about to look at yourself first, then at others and don't deny the past, refuge behind the newest SEB condition.