Super Eurobeat 189

jeurobeat · Post by **jeurobeat** » 29 Jun 2008, 07:28

I think the SinclaireStyle songs are rather good! However I still think that the sounds were the best (and brightest!) at his A beat C and early Delta days (for example: Serena - Always On My Mind, Nathalie - Heartbeat, Margaret - Renegade, Groove Twins - Kick At My Heart, Mike Skanner - Money For Nothing, Nathalie - The Way You Love Me, Drama - Why Can't This Be Love).
But still, even though the sound could be improved, his songs still sound great!

taQ · Post by **taQ** » 29 Jun 2008, 08:47

drnrg wrote: words like Hook and Riff sound way better to describe the power of a Eurobeat song. As long as everyone knows what the hell we are talking 'bout, it's all good.

thats funny bc ive heard them refer to it as riff lately more than sabi.

Shinji-kun[NGE] · Post by **Shinji-kun[NGE]** » 29 Jun 2008, 12:49

Boring and repetitive? Compare Let's Go Wild with, for example, Dancing, or Music For Hire, Mission To Tokyo. There are NOT similar. Anyway, who are you? Composers? The man has about 20 year experience of making eurobeat music, so he knows what to do BETTER than you and doesn't need your advice on how to produce eurobeat.

Jion · Post by **Jion** » 29 Jun 2008, 15:02

There tends to be much confusion (I was included in this not too long ago) about how the song structure is so lets try and fix this up.

Opening - The instrumental section that builds up to the intro

INtro (Riff) - The instrumental "chorus" so to say

A-Melo (Verse 1) - The first first set of singing

B-Melo (The bridge) - The second part of singing that is usually repeated the second time around

Sabi (Chorus) - Nuff said

C-Melo (Verse 2) - The second first set of singing

D-Melo (Second bridge) - Very rare in Eurobeat but it does exist (see Go 2 feat. Christine - Blood On Fire or Betty feat. Annalise - The One For Me for an example)

A usual eurobeat song is usually structured as such (Following the structure for most radio edit songs)

Opening
Intro (Riff)
A-Melo (Verse 1)
B-Melo (Bridge)
Sabi (Chorus)
Intro (Riff)
C-Melo (Verse 2)
B-Melo (Bridge)
Sabi (Chorus)
Intro (Riff)
B-Melo (Bridge)
Sabi (Chorus)
Intro (Riff)
End

Jion · Post by **Jion** » 29 Jun 2008, 15:23

drnrg wrote:zoupzuop2
MY THOUGHTS: Roberta Grana's great vocals get wasted on a somewhat less great Sinclairestyle entry. Also GODDAMNIT SINCLAIRE! SOUNDWORLDS, ALREADY! I'm waiting for nearly a SINGLE Sinclairestyle Eurobeat song that does NOT sound nearly identical! Sinclaire could do SO well, if he just tried something DIFFERENT!
I agree 100% with this statement. This is the main reason I have not enjoyed one single Sinclaire entry since he joined SEB. Some how when he composed at DELTA, the songs had more "Umph" to them. I mean seriously, even "Night Of Fire2" ,would be better then what's been showcased latley. Solution: Raise the volume on Percussion and add new soundworlds. There is a multitude of amazing instrumental sounds that the other labels use, why can't he?

First off... SANDY ISN'T ROBERTA GRANA! LOL... It's been mentioned already on the forums. Second off Sinclaire is guilty of having similar sounding songs but then again so are many other labels. You can't tell me that Time, Delta and HRG aren't guilty of this? Hell especially Saifam. The one especially good thing is the fact that Sinclaire's bass is extremely strong and tight without overwhelming the overall sound quality. Newfield also knows how to have proper bass levels as well.

I know everyone keeps asking me "what is wrong with your system if you keep saying it sounds like your speakers are farting?" I have my home theater system and car stereo system set to the proper sound settings through not only mic settings from the manufacture but also the industry standards. Whenever I move or whatever, it literally takes me 3 hours to properly tune my sound systems to the proper settings using audiophile tools. In short words, I have it set up to the optimal level. I don't have a problem with the sound levels in most Sinclaire songs, Delta songs, SCP songs and to a certain extent most A-Beat C and Go Go's songs. I start having problems with Time songs, a few HRG songs and even Dima songs. Basically if I have to lower the volume for a song, it isn't mixed properly. You can go on and on about how awesome the song sounds and how cool it is. (Hell two of my favorite songs, Idol and Pride sound absolutely terrible and I have to put the songs in an audio formatting tool to reduce their bass levels). In fact it's been mentioned on several news sites and such. One such site that backs up what I've been mentioning this whole time is here.

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/music/a5959 ... -loud.html

Heres another one

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/ ... 878724.ece

That's one of the reasons why if you were to go to a current SEB CD and compare it to older ones, the older ones aren't as "busy" or as "loud". Hell you can do that with just about any music style and see that for yourselves. Partly to blame by Avex but also part of the blame is on the labels themselves who do not do anything about this hence why I complained about Time and Dima records on the last SEPH.

End of rant.

wolftickets1969 · Post by **wolftickets1969** » 29 Jun 2008, 16:29

Lyrical interlude(as opposed to instrumental or guitar solo) or "AABA" style bridge(ie after second sabi): what would that be called in Eurobeat? Sometimes the b-melo section is known as the "climb" or "prechorus". And if there's a third section before the sabi, I've heard that called the "c melo" too, in that case, the second verse/bridge would be "a-melo2, b-melo2, c-melo2".

i guess your definition of a "d melo" is when the second b-melo has different lyrics than the first.

the_ditz · Post by **the_ditz** » 29 Jun 2008, 16:37

I don't see anything wrong with calling the parts of the song by their actual names, like...

Intro > Synth hook > Verse 1 > Bridge > Chorus > Synth hook > Verse 2 > Bridge > Chorus > Synth hook > Interlude > Bridge > Chorus > Synth hook

That would be how I'd describe a typical Eurobeat song structure - none of this a-melo, b-melo nonsense. And at the end of the day, the sabi means chorus right? We all speak English here, but we don't all speak Japanese so why use Japanese words that mean the same as they would do in English - just to confuse people? And also, the "hook" being referred to as the "intro" - how can you have an intro in the middle or even at the end of a song? I've heard of an intro and an outro before, but never an intro used all the way through.

A hook is a repeated phrase (like a riff) that comes back again and again during a song, much like the synth passage in Eurobeat songs. What's confusing about that?

Mikaeru · Post by **Mikaeru** » 29 Jun 2008, 18:43

the_ditz wrote:I don't see anything wrong with calling the parts of the song by their actual names, like...

Intro > Synth hook > Verse 1 > Bridge > Chorus > Synth hook > Verse 2 > Bridge > Chorus > Synth hook > Interlude > Bridge > Chorus > Synth hook

That would be how I'd describe a typical Eurobeat song structure - none of this a-melo, b-melo nonsense. And at the end of the day, the sabi means chorus right? We all speak English here, but we don't all speak Japanese so why use Japanese words that mean the same as they would do in English - just to confuse people? And also, the "hook" being referred to as the "intro" - how can you have an intro in the middle or even at the end of a song? I've heard of an intro and an outro before, but never an intro used all the way through.

A hook is a repeated phrase (like a riff) that comes back again and again during a song, much like the synth passage in Eurobeat songs. What's confusing about that?

The intro-amelo-bmelo-sabi form is from parapara. (well, not sure if those terms *originated* from parapara, but most use it in that context) It's the "intro" move to the dance routine.

Probably generalizing this WAY too much, but seems like people coming from parapara use those terms, and others use what you were saying more. The only real problem I see is the term "intro", since it's used in both sets, but in different circumstances.

taQ · Post by **taQ** » 29 Jun 2008, 18:57

lol yeah, the only reason i brought this whole thing up is because sabi keeps getting used to refer to the intro/instrumental synth part

Jion · Post by **Jion** » 29 Jun 2008, 19:11

Yeah I put two versions to appease everyone when describing the same thing. Anyone that has heard me on SEPH knows that I always call the b-melo the bridge and the sabi the chorus. I don't like saying a-melo, b-melo, etc.

drnrg · Post by **drnrg** » 30 Jun 2008, 08:00

the_ditz

That would be how I'd describe a typical Eurobeat song structure - none of this a-melo, b-melo nonsense

plus those are uncreative boring ass words.

Jion

I know everyone keeps asking me "what is wrong with your system if you keep saying it sounds like your speakers are farting?" I have my home theater system and car stereo system set to the proper sound settings through not only mic settings from the manufacture but also the industry standards. Whenever I move or whatever, it literally takes me 3 hours to properly tune my sound systems to the proper settings using audiophile tools. In short words, I have it set up to the optimal level. I don't have a problem with the sound levels in most Sinclaire songs, Delta songs, SCP songs and to a certain extent most A-Beat C and Go Go's songs. I start having problems with Time songs, a few HRG songs and even Dima songs. Basically if I have to lower the volume for a song, it isn't mixed properly. You can go on and on about how awesome the song sounds and how cool it is. (Hell two of my favorite songs, Idol and Pride sound absolutely terrible and I have to put the songs in an audio formatting tool to reduce their bass levels). In fact it's been mentioned on several news sites and such. One such site that backs up what I've been mentioning this whole time is here.

I have a pretty powerful sytem . The same one I used for Dee Jaying back in the day, so it's pretty old. The factory settings, as you mentioned are meant for the music made back then, We are talking 80's people. Music is definately louder and more powerful now a days, so et the trebel and bass accordingly. Not only that, but i get into that menu with all the other settings. It does get screwed up when one moves around, but that's also attributed to the size of the room , of cousre your speakers watts, how many speakers you run, ect....I set my settings on high because I like it that way and it gets get perfect out put for all labels' music. Anyway, Who ever said the factory settings are the correct ones? You don't set the same bass and trebel for a dance song as you do for a rock song. Different instruments desire higher and or lower output. Even my P.C.'s Window's media reproducer sounds perfect. I activate the Wow SRS option for better and higher defination, but no label 's music ever sounds distorted.

One of the loudest and buisiest songs around is Burning Up The Night. Not the SEB version, but the Eurobeat Masters remix and still I get perfect input, showcasing all the soundworlds pefectly. That is the reason I began liking that song even more. It sounds just fine on my p.c. too.

Intersting links you posted, but I've yet to feel fatigue. I'm basically on the p.C. 24/7 listening to Eurobeat on my system and never get a distorted sound.I have those Red Hot Chili Peppers and Artic Monky's cds and have no problem what so ever. One of the loudest cds I've Purchased is the new Def Leppard. Is it loud, Yes. You do have to adjust bass, beacuse it's mainly guitars and screaming,but agin, no buzzing sound. In your defense, I will add that the last Vinyls released by Eurobeat labels like TIME, HRG , DELTA and ABeatC did sound distorted , compared to the early 90's, but I always attributed that to the Higher BPMs, but again I have no problem with cds. Maybe I'm going deaf from all those D.J years

The problem with Sinclair's productions is not the melody, lyrics nor vocalist. They are actually pretty nice. As opposed to other members who complain about them sounding the same. Hey, I have no problem with that. In fact I like that.The problem is that all his soundworlds sound too light as opposed to all the other labels. The vocals in particualar sound like they are mixed too much in the backround and don't really stand out. If you Compare the Sandy song to an earlier DELTA production of his, somthing is definately lacking and it's the power of Newfield's system at DELTA. At least that's what It sounds like to me.

pokecapn · Post by **pokecapn** » 30 Jun 2008, 12:41

That's just the way music is mastered now, there isn't really anything you can do about it as everyone in the music production/listening chain has come to expect that "hot" loud sound that comes at the expense of clipping and dynamic range compression.

DJ Mike TJG · Post by **DJ Mike TJG** » 30 Jun 2008, 13:12

Yes, it's amusing to see that not even Eurobeat escapes the dreaded "loudness war" where CD mastering is concerned.

Actually, that was something of an annoyance with the recent Eurobeat Masters releases from Newfield. 90% of the songs are fine, but some of them have a really nasty over-compressed sound to them - e.g.:

Leslie Parrish / Remember Me
Madison / Without You
Queen 26 / More Than A Feeling
Queen 26 / Don't Let Me Be The First
Kevin Johnson / Got To Be Your Lover

They sound really, really loud without any kind of subtlety in the music. More's the pity, they're so over-compressed that you can hear when the volume keeps going up and down with each beat of the music (and so the dynamic compression is trying to compensate).

Everyone in the Eurobeat world is guilty of this, though - and it's usually the fault of the SEB engineers more than anyone. SEB 179 in particular suffered from loudness-war volume levels.

It really does amaze me that, with digital audio's exceptional dynamic range (96dB!!), studios insist on crushing this out of modern music, all for the sake of having their songs appear louder than everyone else's (and also to compensate for the "iPod Generation" of users who complain that the songs on their portable players sound too quiet otherwise).

zoupzuop2 · Post by **zoupzuop2** » 30 Jun 2008, 17:42

I've created a monster. ._.

My problem has never been with the composition or vocals or even how it's mixed. Those, if anything, are pretty much some of the most top-notch in the business. I just notice that Sinclaire seems to choose nearly the exact same sounds for the last few SEB entries-- the same riff sound, same bass, same drums... granted, I can already say that SCP is guilty of seldom choosing other riff sounds (outside of, say, guitars), along with other guilty labels, but... something about the recent productions still sounds nearly the same. It bothers me, simply because I KNOW that Sinclaire could do better. Even a minor-key piece would be different! (Let's Go Wild, Move On Up Baby, and Power of Loving You, incidentally, were all in major keys.)

For instance. Go back and listen to Ale's "If You Ever Leave Me". Doesn't it sound PRETTY much like Power of Loving You? I mean, the lyrics and chords are different, but that sort of soundworld, that-- for lack of a better term-- aura, that feeling... very similar, if not practically the same. That sort'a "wild" synth, reverb-y (that's somewhat echo-y), strong bass... little has changed since his leaving from Delta.

Surely, Sinclaire could learn from his experiences at Delta? Laurent and the "new" Delta crew REALLY know how to get a good set of unique and interesting soundworlds, and even did so with Sinclaire in tow for a brief period of time. I'm not saying Sinclaire should go back; while I imagine Sinclaire would do just fine in either case, I actually very much like having the two separated in terms of different songs from both. What I mean is, perhaps Sinclaire should try to recall songs like Baby Queen Seventeen, Heartbeat, even Speedy Speed Boy and Running In The 90's-- songs that didn't have the same soundworlds as NoF or Speedway (or Let's Go Wild or Move On Up Baby or...), but still really did quite well in their own rights.

Post by **SuperEuroJimmy** » 30 Jun 2008, 18:24

holy bbq it's almost july 2nd and I haven't pre'd it yet!

Oh, did I just go somewhat ontopic? Sorry 'bout that guys. : (

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