lady gaga's paparazzi sounds like rose i wanna be your love?

[synthjunkie]

hey, i was listening to rose's i wanna be your love, from 1988, by time records, and realized a part of the song kinda sounds like lady gaga's paparazzi. Is it just me, or do other people hear it too?

The part on Lady gaga that sounds like Rose's sound is from 3:11-3:17, 3:20-3:25, etc (using the time from the official music video), and the part on Rose's is from 0:54-0:58, 1:01-1:06, etc (using the Hearts Club Mix on the single). To me they sound very similar in melody in the way the vocals are sung in both songs, except that Lady Gaga changes the melody at the end when she starts to say "Papa, Paparazzi."

[drnrg]

Haha! Why do you think I hate all that crap dance pop? All it is a bunch of borrowed Italo melodies sprinkled with Rapping, because they can't sing
. Take Pitbull's International Love or that other song he had earlier this year. If you don't hear the Italo Disco rythm throughout the song, then you are colour deaf. When they are not borrowing Italo melodies, then they are borrowing from each other's pop songs. Lady Gaga had a spittin image of a song from Madonna called "Express Your self" . Flor-Rida ripped off Dead Or Alive's "You Spin Me Round" melody. Everyone knows that that melody is only efficient in Eurobeat music. Particularly HRG Attack songs.
At least when Italo, Hi NRG, Eurobeat, and New Wave first started they tried to incorporate new and exciting melodies. Now days it's all a bunch of rehashed melodies. Of course all those Pitbulls, Gaga's and Flor-rida's need talent to begin with.

[synthjunkie]

Yeah, I know. I also do not listen to mainstream pop music for that same reason. I like to think of it like this: in the same way that fashion comes first in Italy, so does music, and America only comes last to follow it and/or copy it.

Sometimes I think that either these artists are copying/plagarising these songs, or are secretly paying off the Italian artists to keep "quiet."

For example, I can think of many instances where Madonna copied Italo-disco and eurobeat melodies in her earlier works. I know also some eurobeat artists also used her melodies, but I think they are mocking her in a way to get back at her, since she has first stolen some of their melodies and/or ideas.

For example, she has a connection with italo-disco and eurobeat if you look at it this way:
She has currently used DJ Benny Benassi in her productions, who belongs to OFF LIMIT RECORDS, who is the same record company for IVANA SPAGNA, who sang italo disco in the early 80's under the alias of FUN FUN and later as a solo project. Another strange connection is that OFF LIMIT RECORDS ITALY also produces music for WHIGFIELD, who has songs produced by ANNERLEY GORDON, who we all know sings for EUROBEAT and as well as some EURODANCE projects and released material under some same record labels as CLARA MORONI during her EURODANCE projects. Funny how they are all connected with each other in one way or another.
Another example of plagarisim: try googling how RIHANNA copied WHIGFIELD'S song SATURDAY NIGHT in the riff on her song called WE FOUND LOVE.
Also look up how LADY GAGA copied the song BORN THIS WAY, from 80'S FRENCH singer MYLENE FARMER, in her song called LIBERTINE. Libertine is the song that was frist copied by Madonna to make EXPRESS YOURSELF.
Look up how Madonna stole the into melody of her song LIKE A PRAYER 2008 sticky and sweet version from EURODANCE artist FELIX and the song titled DON'T YOU WANT ME.
Look up how KYLIE MINOGUE copied the riff from the song from Ivana Spagna called LOVE AT FIRST SIGHT, kYLIE even used the same song title, and didn't even give credit in her cd's notes that the riff came from SPAGNA!
The list goes on and on.....too funny!

[zoupzuop2]

Oh goody, another thread dedicated to bashing Pop (specifically American from the looks of it).

I had a HUGE post ready for this, but I'll condense it and wash my hands of this filth. Understand that these points and my opinions are not personal attacks, but retaliations to the points and suggestions made.

Ultimately...
• You Spin Me Round borrowed its strings from Flight of the Valkyries. Suddenly a beloved Italo Disco song is not entirely original~!
• Benny Benassi's production company (it is NOT record label, or if it was, not anymore) is distributed by Ultra (same label that distributes mau5trax/Deadmau5 and OWSLA/Skrillex*), which is itself operated by Warner, the same label that distributes/manages Madonna. The paperwork and effort for intra-label collaboration, cooperation or even conspiracy is GREATLY reduced when it's all under Warner's little international umbrella. tl;dr: They're all the same happy family.
• Artists are very seldom involved in the writing process, Eurobeat OR Pop. It's not Rihanna's FAULT if her producers/engineers/writers/etc were so unethical as to rip off other genres. Which reminds me:
• We have AN ENTIRE THREAD DEDICATED TO EUROBEAT-SPECIFIC RIPOFFS. Suggesting that Eurobeat is AT ALL innocent of plagiarism or ripping off other songs (eurobeat OR otherwise) is being exceptionally hypocritical (or unintentionally ignorant).
• Going back two points above this one, most artists also don't give two craps about specifically-Italian music. They (or, accurately, their writers/composers/etc) could also be ripping off Norwegians, Swedes, Japanese, Indians, Russians... never mind, good music only comes from Italy, right?
• Also, Americans are not the only country ripping off other countries.

*Fun fact: Porter Robinson of OWSLA (Skrillex's label) is a Eurobeat fan, specifically of David Dima's earlier productions and Magic Hammer. (SOURCE: Various tweets from @porterrobinson, personal contact with PR through Twitter on Apr 27)

[synthjunkie]

Sorry, but i disagree, however I agree with Dr. NRG all the way though. I think that American pop music is very overrated. First off, I think it's a very selfish system how pop idols work: not paying royalties to artist's they ahve sampled from, Come on, don't you think Lady Gaga has enough money to spare some to give to the original artists she has sampled from?

Eurobeat and italo-disco producers are not even closely compensated for their time and effort in making music and melodies, and even if some of their melodies borrowed from others, in essence, Italo-disco, eurobeat's origin, is the first form of electronic dance music which all other electronic dance music today stems from. It is the mother of electronica. So it would only make sense for something so melodious to be repeated and used by other artists today.

I find it unfair that an artist such as Lady Gaga who makes so much money would not give any care in the world to have talked to her producer to make sure he didn't sample a song without the original artist's concent, because maybe you don't know this, but in the music industry if she did get the original artist's concent, Rose and her producers would legally have to get paid for in royalties. I am not talking about sueing, but royalties, which means that when you ask in front for permission, the original artist may ask to either give away the sample for free, or charge the copying artist to use his sample and be paid and compensated a certain percentage in all sales purchases of that song. But no, I guess Lady Gaga and/or her producer couldn't do that, since either she couldn't spare a dime, or didn't want others to know the original source where she sampled from, to keep her looking "original and fresh." Since after all, hollywood and show biz likes fresh ideas, don't they?

I find it unfair for these Pop Diva "bullies" to be struting their stuff as if they are the Queen of the world, and flash their money bills of fame, and leave other hard working Eurobeat and Italo artists in the dust and unrecognized for their hard work, and even more so paid fare less so than all the money she has made from her songs.

If a eurobeat artist sampled in the past a song from a famous signer, so what? these famous singers make so much money anyway , but for it to be the other way around seems totally unfair, and seems like bullying to me, only because they have a higher "status," society tends to over-respect them and tend to be more appologetic towards them, but if an unfamous artists copies somebody famous, everybody gets angry. So unfair...

To sum it up, it is untangable to think how we think in our society that those with fame and fortune must always be at the top because of their hard work, rather than to ever think for a second that maybe they do not give credit to those below them who never received a penny for their hard work in creating that melody which in turn was used by the POP IDOL to generate MILLIONS of dollars without any of it going to the orignal artist.

By the way, my hit is not just on Lady Gaga here, it's on all MAJOR artists around the world who suck up money by copying other lower/unfamous artists. It's easier to copy from somebody unknown, because that way the production seems original to most fans who have never heard of the orignal production by the unknown/unfamous artist. BOOM! BOOM! DOLLaR! That's money-making showbiz for ya!

[DarkSky]

Sorry, but i disagree, however I agree with Dr. NRG all the way though. I think that American pop music is very overrated. First off, I think it's a very selfish system how pop idols work: not paying royalties to artist's they ahve sampled from, Come on, don't you think Lady Gaga has enough money to spare some to give to the original artists she has sampled from?

Eurobeat and italo-disco producers are not even closely compensated for their time and effort in making music and melodies, and even if some of their melodies borrowed from others, in essence, Italo-disco, eurobeat's origin, is the first form of electronic dance music which all other electronic dance music today stems from. It is the mother of electronica. So it would only make sense for something so melodious to be repeated and used by other artists today.

I find it unfair that an artist such as Lady Gaga who makes so much money would not give any care in the world to have talked to her producer to make sure he didn't sample a song without the original artist's concent, because maybe you don't know this, but in the music industry if she did get the original artist's concent, Rose and her producers would legally have to get paid for in royalties. I am not talking about sueing, but royalties, which means that when you ask in front for permission, the original artist may ask to either give away the sample for free, or charge the copying artist to use his sample and be paid and compensated a certain percentage in all sales purchases of that song. But no, I guess Lady Gaga and/or her producer couldn't do that, since either she couldn't spare a dime, or didn't want others to know the original source where she sampled from, to keep her looking "original and fresh." Since after all, hollywood and show biz likes fresh ideas, don't they?

I find it unfair for these Pop Diva "bullies" to be struting their stuff as if they are the Queen of the world, and flash their money bills of fame, and leave other hard working Eurobeat and Italo artists in the dust and unrecognized for their hard work, and even more so paid fare less so than all the money she has made from her songs.

If a eurobeat artist sampled in the past a song from a famous signer, so what? these famous singers make so much money anyway , but for it to be the other way around seems totally unfair, and seems like bullying to me, only because they have a higher "status," society tends to over-respect them and tend to be more appologetic towards them, but if an unfamous artists copies somebody famous, everybody gets angry. So unfair...

To sum it up, it is untangable to think how we think in our society that those with fame and fortune must always be at the top because of their hard work, rather than to ever think for a second that maybe they do not give credit to those below them who never received a penny for their hard work in creating that melody which in turn was used by the POP IDOL to generate MILLIONS of dollars without any of it going to the orignal artist.

By the way, my hit is not just on Lady Gaga here, it's on all MAJOR artists around the world who suck up money by copying other lower/unfamous artists. It's easier to copy from somebody unknown, because that way the production seems original to most fans who have never heard of the orignal production by the unknown/unfamous artist. BOOM! BOOM! DOLLaR! That's money-making showbiz for ya!

This sampling happens in every kind of music, please just get over it.
And yeah, everybody here acts like Eurobeat is the holy genre and nobody may touch it. All other genres are shit, and all non-Eurobeat producers are criminals as they steal melodies.

That's not the way you should think

[synthjunkie]

What I tried to say in the beginning of my very first post is to try and bring to attention to people in the eurobeat community and generate some excitement how interesting it is for somebody as famous as Lady Gaga to have sampled from Eurobeat. I think it is wonderful that such a small genre of music has influenced somebody so big in the music industry for her to have sampled a Eurobeat song in such a famous landmark song in the beginning of her career such as Paparazzi. Again, who knows if it was her decision or her producer/s, but Lady Gaga did once say in an interview her interest in Eurodance music...which has some similarities to Eurobeat in some ways or another... That's the way I like to look at it! And I wished those who saw my very first post would have thought it that way too.

[zoupzuop2]

In regard to your last post... I see it now. Just know that on this forum, most people will blindly react to American Pop music with "LOL IT'S ALL TERRIBLE BECAUSE I'VE TOTALLY TAKEN THE TIME TO LISTEN TO ENOUGH OF IT TO GAUGE THAT QUALITY GOES BEYOND MY PERSONAL TASTES, ALSO ONLY AMERICA MAKES BAD MUSIC", and other sentiments of that sort. The problem was suggesting that an American artist might have done something right; for this forum that's like telling a flat-earth believer that the world is round.

Now, I take issue with some of your previous posts, as such:

Sorry, but i disagree, however I agree with Dr. NRG all the way though. I think that American pop music is very overrated. First off, I think it's a very selfish system how pop idols work: not paying royalties to artist's they ahve sampled from, Come on, don't you think Lady Gaga has enough money to spare some to give to the original artists she has sampled from?

Because, of course, all the music that goes Pop in the world is American, and never British/English/Swedish/German/etc. There's NO such thing as Dragostea din Tae, Blue or Heut Ist Mein Tag, right? Those must either not exist, or they're secretly American, since they're "pop" enough to have done well here in the USA, right? By that logic, that's how it'd go.

Actually? It's HIGHLY possible that she does NOT have that kind of money; in MOST record contracts the label gets the majority of the cents of any dollar spent on a record. If Gaga has millions, her label must have billions in contrast. (Recommended: "Confessions of a Record Producer" by Moses Avalon)

As well, again, Gaga is not her own producer. She may not even know that other artists have been sampled in her songs, and if she did bother questioning the system, I doubt she'd give two craps about the country it came from. (And by the way, it's just as likely to be Italian as it is NOT to be Italian.)

Additionally, in most cases producers are likely to sample within their own record label— if anything, one thing most record execs won't tell you is that most of the money "lost to mp3 pirating" has been regained in licensing, be it for sampling or for movies/television/etc, usually upwards of $1mil if it's a popular track. That's not to say ALL ground has been recovered, but... that's how it is.

Eurobeat and italo-disco producers are not even closely compensated for their time and effort in making music and melodies, and even if some of their melodies borrowed from others, in essence, Italo-disco, eurobeat's origin, is the first form of electronic dance music which all other electronic dance music today stems from. It is the mother of electronica. So it would only make sense for something so melodious to be repeated and used by other artists today.

I agree that EB producers (and writers, composers, artists, etc) are not compensated well, seeing as I am one. Glad we agree

But do you REALLY think Italo Disco is the grandfather of THAT many genres? Heaven forbid artists like Kraftwerk, Yellow Magic Orchestra, or even the freaking Beatles' use of synthesizers had any say in the matter of how electronics have influenced music today; nossir (noma'am? My apologies that I haven't asked your gender yet), that must ONLY fall on our heavenly genre-father Italo.

I find it unfair that an artist such as Lady Gaga who makes so much money would not give any care in the world to have talked to her producer to make sure he didn't sample a song without the original artist's concent, because maybe you don't know this, but in the music industry if she did get the original artist's concent, Rose and her producers would legally have to get paid for in royalties. I am not talking about sueing, but royalties, which means that when you ask in front for permission, the original artist may ask to either give away the sample for free, or charge the copying artist to use his sample and be paid and compensated a certain percentage in all sales purchases of that song. But no, I guess Lady Gaga and/or her producer couldn't do that, since either she couldn't spare a dime, or didn't want others to know the original source where she sampled from, to keep her looking "original and fresh." Since after all, hollywood and show biz likes fresh ideas, don't they?

That's the music biz though. Most artists/musicians, no matter how "lazy" they may SOUND in their works, actually work their asses off to get from gig to gig, get their next record out on time (a label can usually request two within one calendar year in most contracts, when it's difficult enough to do one well enough within that time), create promotional works, and so on. Yes, even Lady Gaga has to work at her craft, imagine that. She probably just doesn't have time to go "oh by the way, was every single sample you used in this single track, out of the thousands you used, cleared and approved with the original artists? Just want to make sure. I'll ask for every other track you've produced too, just to be fair. I have SO MUCH TIME for this, and I bet you do too!"

And, by the way, I know what Royalties are. I've been in the Eurobeat industry for well over... what, three years now (before my first SEB entry, for sure)?

By the way, most record contracts don't "pay" the artist (and his/her team) to make the album. That's LOANED money; they use it to make the record and recompensate the expense through sales (good bloody luck), first to the label, then to the producers/engineers/etc, THEN to the artist. So, no, Lady Gaga and her team probably COULDN'T spare money that isn't theirs to begin with.

I find it unfair for these Pop Diva "bullies" to be struting their stuff as if they are the Queen of the world, and flash their money bills of fame, and leave other hard working Eurobeat and Italo artists in the dust and unrecognized for their hard work, and even more so paid fare less so than all the money she has made from her songs.

Ohgawd. "Pop Diva Bullies", I love that mental image. "Money bills of fame" are provided on the label's dime, so the "Bully" can't exactly do too much with it unless she wants to get into deep trouble.

And again, Eurobeat and Italo aren't the only genres being ripped off here! What in the world makes Eurobeat, a largely niche-enough-in-Japan-as-it-is genre, and its granddaddy Italo Disco, so INCREDIBLY SPECIAL that producers of genres almost ENTIRELY unique to it go out of their way to (maliciously) rip it off, when there are so many other, more easily ripped-off genres from which to choose? MOST producers in the United States don't even know what it is!!!

Most producers of modern pop just don't care enough about Eurobeat or Italo Disco to go out of their way to rip it off.

If a eurobeat artist sampled in the past a song from a famous signer, so what? these famous singers make so much money anyway , but for it to be the other way around seems totally unfair, and seems like bullying to me, only because they have a higher "status," society tends to over-respect them and tend to be more appologetic towards them, but if an unfamous artists copies somebody famous, everybody gets angry. So unfair...

So, a Eurobeat artist should be allowed to get away with theft because someone else makes more money than they do? If that's true, I should be able to steal a Ferrari off the lot because someone else owns a Bugatti Veyron.
The double standard here is so obvious it just painted itself neon and shouted into a megaphone into my ear. Eurobeat plays by the same legal and monetary rules as any other genre. Theft is theft, regardless of if it's Rihanna or Rodgers.
As well, again, there's the assumption that big-name artists (and their teams) go out of their way to push other acts around. They're just too bloody busy to be malicious in their intent. Additionally, it has happened before that two different producers conjure the same line without having EVER MET the other one. Not every "stolen" line is because of some moustache-twisting maniac in a suit. (In fact, most record execs AREN'T these types. They don't even usually have moustaches.)

(...a shame, really. It'd be fun to see one twist it and act evil.)

To sum it up, it is untangable to think how we think in our society that those with fame and fortune must always be at the top because of their hard work, rather than to ever think for a second that maybe they do not give credit to those below them who never received a penny for their hard work in creating that melody which in turn was used by the POP IDOL to generate MILLIONS of dollars without any of it going to the orignal artist.

By the way, my hit is not just on Lady Gaga here, it's on all MAJOR artists around the world who suck up money by copying other lower/unfamous artists. It's easier to copy from somebody unknown, because that way the production seems original to most fans who have never heard of the orignal production by the unknown/unfamous artist. BOOM! BOOM! DOLLaR! That's money-making showbiz for ya!

Not "all MAJOR artists around the world" copy lower/unfamous artists. Some of them... get ready for this... do their own work. You're spewing a LOT of unfounded hatred when you have no demonstrated industry experience. Yes, there's injustice, yes it sucks, but... no, not every artist who's made it big did so by backstabbing those below them. I managed to get onto SEB, in the independent Eurobeat scene and into Rolling Stone without trampling anyone (consciously, anyway), and I heavily doubt I'm the only artist to actually get rewarded for working hard.

In Short:
• No, most artists DON'T pick on Eurobeat and Italo because it's too niche to even bother.
• In fact, most pop artists (and producers, writers, composers, etc) don't even know what those are.
• American Pop Artists aren't the only ones who steal from other artists. We're also not the only country to pump out crappy pop music.
• Eurobeat artists SHOULDN'T steal because theft is theft is theft. If you rearended another driver, you could be the Pope or Chuck Norris or Mahatma Ghandi, but you still hit the other driver.

We've GOT to stop treating Eurobeat or Italo like it's a wildly different creature from other genres. It's not Pop's grandpa. It's not some treasure trove from which producers frequently steal. And it's DEFINITELY not going to last much longer if we keep trying to act like it's so different from everything else. It's still dance music. Fast, cheesy, energetic dance music. Other genres have the same tempos, some of the same samples, sometimes even the same producers. It's OUR dance music— a genre for which I've shed genuine tears, stayed up late nights worrying about— but it's still just as much of a genre of electronic dance music as trance, dubstep, disco, new wave, breakbeat... you get the idea.

[para_rigby]

In regard to your last post... I see it now. Just know that on this forum, most people will blindly react to American Pop music with "LOL IT'S ALL TERRIBLE BECAUSE I'VE TOTALLY TAKEN THE TIME TO LISTEN TO ENOUGH OF IT TO GAUGE THAT QUALITY GOES BEYOND MY PERSONAL TASTES, ALSO ONLY AMERICA MAKES BAD MUSIC", and other sentiments of that sort. The problem was suggesting that an American artist might have done something right; for this forum that's like telling a flat-earth believer that the world is round.

Now, I take issue with some of your previous posts, as such:

Sorry, but i disagree, however I agree with Dr. NRG all the way though. I think that American pop music is very overrated. First off, I think it's a very selfish system how pop idols work: not paying royalties to artist's they ahve sampled from, Come on, don't you think Lady Gaga has enough money to spare some to give to the original artists she has sampled from?

Because, of course, all the music that goes Pop in the world is American, and never British/English/Swedish/German/etc. There's NO such thing as Dragostea din Tae, Blue or Heut Ist Mein Tag, right? Those must either not exist, or they're secretly American, since they're "pop" enough to have done well here in the USA, right? By that logic, that's how it'd go.

Actually? It's HIGHLY possible that she does NOT have that kind of money; in MOST record contracts the label gets the majority of the cents of any dollar spent on a record. If Gaga has millions, her label must have billions in contrast. (Recommended: "Confessions of a Record Producer" by Moses Avalon)

As well, again, Gaga is not her own producer. She may not even know that other artists have been sampled in her songs, and if she did bother questioning the system, I doubt she'd give two craps about the country it came from. (And by the way, it's just as likely to be Italian as it is NOT to be Italian.)

Additionally, in most cases producers are likely to sample within their own record label— if anything, one thing most record execs won't tell you is that most of the money "lost to mp3 pirating" has been regained in licensing, be it for sampling or for movies/television/etc, usually upwards of $1mil if it's a popular track. That's not to say ALL ground has been recovered, but... that's how it is.

Eurobeat and italo-disco producers are not even closely compensated for their time and effort in making music and melodies, and even if some of their melodies borrowed from others, in essence, Italo-disco, eurobeat's origin, is the first form of electronic dance music which all other electronic dance music today stems from. It is the mother of electronica. So it would only make sense for something so melodious to be repeated and used by other artists today.

I agree that EB producers (and writers, composers, artists, etc) are not compensated well, seeing as I am one. Glad we agree

But do you REALLY think Italo Disco is the grandfather of THAT many genres? Heaven forbid artists like Kraftwerk, Yellow Magic Orchestra, or even the freaking Beatles' use of synthesizers had any say in the matter of how electronics have influenced music today; nossir (noma'am? My apologies that I haven't asked your gender yet), that must ONLY fall on our heavenly genre-father Italo.

I find it unfair that an artist such as Lady Gaga who makes so much money would not give any care in the world to have talked to her producer to make sure he didn't sample a song without the original artist's concent, because maybe you don't know this, but in the music industry if she did get the original artist's concent, Rose and her producers would legally have to get paid for in royalties. I am not talking about sueing, but royalties, which means that when you ask in front for permission, the original artist may ask to either give away the sample for free, or charge the copying artist to use his sample and be paid and compensated a certain percentage in all sales purchases of that song. But no, I guess Lady Gaga and/or her producer couldn't do that, since either she couldn't spare a dime, or didn't want others to know the original source where she sampled from, to keep her looking "original and fresh." Since after all, hollywood and show biz likes fresh ideas, don't they?

That's the music biz though. Most artists/musicians, no matter how "lazy" they may SOUND in their works, actually work their asses off to get from gig to gig, get their next record out on time (a label can usually request two within one calendar year in most contracts, when it's difficult enough to do one well enough within that time), create promotional works, and so on. Yes, even Lady Gaga has to work at her craft, imagine that. She probably just doesn't have time to go "oh by the way, was every single sample you used in this single track, out of the thousands you used, cleared and approved with the original artists? Just want to make sure. I'll ask for every other track you've produced too, just to be fair. I have SO MUCH TIME for this, and I bet you do too!"

And, by the way, I know what Royalties are. I've been in the Eurobeat industry for well over... what, three years now (before my first SEB entry, for sure)?

By the way, most record contracts don't "pay" the artist (and his/her team) to make the album. That's LOANED money; they use it to make the record and recompensate the expense through sales (good bloody luck), first to the label, then to the producers/engineers/etc, THEN to the artist. So, no, Lady Gaga and her team probably COULDN'T spare money that isn't theirs to begin with.

I find it unfair for these Pop Diva "bullies" to be struting their stuff as if they are the Queen of the world, and flash their money bills of fame, and leave other hard working Eurobeat and Italo artists in the dust and unrecognized for their hard work, and even more so paid fare less so than all the money she has made from her songs.

Ohgawd. "Pop Diva Bullies", I love that mental image. "Money bills of fame" are provided on the label's dime, so the "Bully" can't exactly do too much with it unless she wants to get into deep trouble.

And again, Eurobeat and Italo aren't the only genres being ripped off here! What in the world makes Eurobeat, a largely niche-enough-in-Japan-as-it-is genre, and its granddaddy Italo Disco, so INCREDIBLY SPECIAL that producers of genres almost ENTIRELY unique to it go out of their way to (maliciously) rip it off, when there are so many other, more easily ripped-off genres from which to choose? MOST producers in the United States don't even know what it is!!!

Most producers of modern pop just don't care enough about Eurobeat or Italo Disco to go out of their way to rip it off.

If a eurobeat artist sampled in the past a song from a famous signer, so what? these famous singers make so much money anyway , but for it to be the other way around seems totally unfair, and seems like bullying to me, only because they have a higher "status," society tends to over-respect them and tend to be more appologetic towards them, but if an unfamous artists copies somebody famous, everybody gets angry. So unfair...

So, a Eurobeat artist should be allowed to get away with theft because someone else makes more money than they do? If that's true, I should be able to steal a Ferrari off the lot because someone else owns a Bugatti Veyron.
The double standard here is so obvious it just painted itself neon and shouted into a megaphone into my ear. Eurobeat plays by the same legal and monetary rules as any other genre. Theft is theft, regardless of if it's Rihanna or Rodgers.
As well, again, there's the assumption that big-name artists (and their teams) go out of their way to push other acts around. They're just too bloody busy to be malicious in their intent. Additionally, it has happened before that two different producers conjure the same line without having EVER MET the other one. Not every "stolen" line is because of some moustache-twisting maniac in a suit. (In fact, most record execs AREN'T these types. They don't even usually have moustaches.)

(...a shame, really. It'd be fun to see one twist it and act evil.)

To sum it up, it is untangable to think how we think in our society that those with fame and fortune must always be at the top because of their hard work, rather than to ever think for a second that maybe they do not give credit to those below them who never received a penny for their hard work in creating that melody which in turn was used by the POP IDOL to generate MILLIONS of dollars without any of it going to the orignal artist.

By the way, my hit is not just on Lady Gaga here, it's on all MAJOR artists around the world who suck up money by copying other lower/unfamous artists. It's easier to copy from somebody unknown, because that way the production seems original to most fans who have never heard of the orignal production by the unknown/unfamous artist. BOOM! BOOM! DOLLaR! That's money-making showbiz for ya!

Not "all MAJOR artists around the world" copy lower/unfamous artists. Some of them... get ready for this... do their own work. You're spewing a LOT of unfounded hatred when you have no demonstrated industry experience. Yes, there's injustice, yes it sucks, but... no, not every artist who's made it big did so by backstabbing those below them. I managed to get onto SEB, in the independent Eurobeat scene and into Rolling Stone without trampling anyone (consciously, anyway), and I heavily doubt I'm the only artist to actually get rewarded for working hard.

In Short:
• No, most artists DON'T pick on Eurobeat and Italo because it's too niche to even bother.
• In fact, most pop artists (and producers, writers, composers, etc) don't even know what those are.
• American Pop Artists aren't the only ones who steal from other artists. We're also not the only country to pump out crappy pop music.
• Eurobeat artists SHOULDN'T steal because theft is theft is theft. If you rearended another driver, you could be the Pope or Chuck Norris or Mahatma Ghandi, but you still hit the other driver.

We've GOT to stop treating Eurobeat or Italo like it's a wildly different creature from other genres. It's not Pop's grandpa. It's not some treasure trove from which producers frequently steal. And it's DEFINITELY not going to last much longer if we keep trying to act like it's so different from everything else. It's still dance music. Fast, cheesy, energetic dance music. Other genres have the same tempos, some of the same samples, sometimes even the same producers. It's OUR dance music— a genre for which I've shed genuine tears, stayed up late nights worrying about— but it's still just as much of a genre of electronic dance music as trance, dubstep, disco, new wave, breakbeat... you get the idea.

Just had to say amen to all of this rebuttal. Eurobeat is not on the only great genre out there...stop treating it as such. I get tired of hearing anything else but that. And people...quit blaming American music for the problems of the world...

[Vadim]

In my view, Synthjunkie made an excellent and thoughtfull post, with a lot of research and examples to prove his point. For the record, he ain't putting a blame on ameripop for the evils of the world..so give a guy a break...

Ameripop is criticized mainly because of it's colossal monopolic nature which buys out whole nations' markets to saturate and control by their products at the expense of dramatic supression of all the rest in the pop/dance music.

Eurobeat is different from typical techno derived dance, as this style is an integral part of NRG supergenre together with older Italo and HI NRG styles.
Eurobeat comes not from techno or pop, but from NRG sort of dance music.

Nothing is wrong with other types of music, but we must be fair and see that every genre has a right to exist on it's own and not be invaded or destroyed by other competing genres.

[otter87]

First off, I think it's a very selfish system how pop idols work: not paying royalties to artist's they ahve sampled from

I'm sure Jennifer Lopez saw money for Kevin & Cherry - Chemical Love. -_-

[drnrg]

Listen all you guys defending "American" Pop; I just wanna make it clear that it's not American Pop; Rather Dance Pop that's ruining Dance music as we know it. American Pop in itself is rather rare nowadays. Aside from Adam Lambert, Train, Daughtry, Taylor Swift,Kelly Clarkson and may I add; All 5 of those are good acts; most of them are foreign. Nickelback, Adele, Coldplay(also good), and hate to admit it, but Gaga ,Rihanna, David Guetta are also foreign. So when you guys defend true American acts; I guess you are defending for Pitbull, Usher, Flo-Rida, Ke$ha, Katy Perry the horrendoez LMFAO and most of the Urban Rap acts out there. These artists are the ones that use the most formulatic form of music imaginable....and no matter how hard you try; you aren't gonna convince me that those people come up with any original melodies or for that matter, have any ounce of talent.

I find it hard to beleive that anyone actually finds these artists' music appealing or inspiring and everyone here should know that these so-called artsist are only popular cuz the music industry plays thier songs every half hour and shoves them down everyone's throat.

Those are the main offenders "borrowing" from other genres; and I say other genres, because I didn't just say Eurobeat; I also mentioned New Wave, 80's Hi Energy and yes; the grandfather of Dance; which is, and always will be Italo Disco.

this whole debate started out when Synth junkie heard Rose- "I Wanna Be Your Love" in the melodies of Gaga's- "Papparazzi"; which in fact;
proves that American made Dance Pop is "inspired" by Italo Disco. Sorry if it offends some of you, when but deal with it. It's a fact.

[Bore]

These artists are the ones that use the most formulatic form of music imaginable....

Just a poke at this sentence. You listen to eurobeat, yet complain about formulatic song structure? I would beg to differ that eurobeat is one, if not the most formulatic of all genres. Modern dancepop has never had a very solid structure it follows. While I am no friend of the acts you mentioned there, I do have a really hard time grasping at the accusation made here.

[zoupzuop2]

Listen all you guys defending "American" Pop; I just wanna make it clear that it's not American Pop; Rather Dance Pop that's ruining Dance music as we know it. American Pop in itself is rather rare nowadays. Aside from Adam Lambert, Train, Daughtry, Taylor Swift,Kelly Clarkson and may I add; All 5 of those are good acts; most of them are foreign. Nickelback, Adele, Coldplay(also good), and hate to admit it, but Gaga ,Rihanna, David Guetta are also foreign. So when you guys defend true American acts; I guess you are defending for Pitbull, Usher, Flo-Rida, Ke$ha, Katy Perry the horrendoez LMFAO and most of the Urban Rap acts out there. These artists are the ones that use the most formulatic form of music imaginable....and no matter how hard you try; you aren't gonna convince me that those people come up with any original melodies or for that matter, have any ounce of talent.

Believe me, I'm no fan of Pitbull, Usher, DEFINITELY not Flo-Rida or Ke$ha (I do thihnk Katy Perry has an okay voice, perhaps for another style). Understand that I'm not suggesting that anyone should HAVE to LIKE these acts at all; my problem here is the inherent suggestion that it's somehow by virtue the "worst of the worst". (Earlier in this thread American Dance-Pop artists, particularly female ones according to Synthjunkie's references to Rihanna and Lady Gaga; lack of distinguishing between American dance-pop artists vs. other countries' entries, etc)
Actually, yes, I WOULD like to suggest that some of these most hated of acts actually DO have talent, just not necessarily very much. Believe it or not, even producing a "polished turd" takes the effort of the polish, and while they don't always necessarily do their own writing or their own composition, these artists are still working, practicing their craft. (Maybe not Ke$ha; I wholeheartedly believe she has no business being in music at all. If your SPEECH needs autotuning, you're not suited for music!!!) Even with Autotune on one needs to be "close enough" to pitch (having occasionally used the plugin myself, singers DO have bad days~!), and there's no way in the world big labels would pick up "lazy" artists. They still work hard to meet the demands their record labels place on them, they still have to meet deadlines, get the tracks right, fill out paperwork, etc.

As for coming up with original lines, you might very well be right, perhaps these artists DON'T have their own lines. That responsibility goes to whoever does their composition or writing. By the way, it IS entirely possible to conjure up the same lines, word-for-word and note-for-note, without plagiarism (my song "I Breathe Fire" brought me a run-in with a rather angry black-metal band of whom I had never heard until they started slandering me on Youtube). However, this can be said of ANY AND ALL genres, not just Dance Pop. It seems to be a point very specifically brought up around American Dance Pop, which is my problem with the matter; it's like pointing at someone and said "YOU WERE SPEEDING ON THE HIGHWAY"; true, they might have, but... there's a whole LOT of other folks speeding on the highway (doesn't mean it's "okay" by any means). It's as true of that person as it is of nearly every other driver on the road. For genres it's the same— yes, Dance Pop has borrowed lines from other songs, that's bad, it shouldn't do that, no questions there. But Dance Pop is just as guilty as various forms of metal, soul, reggae, punk, pop, video game soundtracks, polka... the genre's nation of origin does nothing to distinguish that, either; producers and labels from EVERY continent, country and walk of life steal and "borrow".

I find it hard to beleive that anyone actually finds these artists' music appealing or inspiring and everyone here should know that these so-called artsist are only popular cuz the music industry plays thier songs every half hour and shoves them down everyone's throat.

Of course the music industry is going to play their biggest money-makers as often as they can. That's how they get money. If one of my songs went platinum you bet I'd be blasting that sucker as often as I could if it kept me fed, clothed and sheltered. I imagine it's the same for those whose incomes depend on Dance Pop as well. Not every record label employee twists their moustache on large piles of money (some do it on small piles of money that just get them through the month).

Those are the main offenders "borrowing" from other genres; and I say other genres, because I didn't just say Eurobeat; I also mentioned New Wave, 80's Hi Energy and yes; the grandfather of Dance; which is, and always will be Italo Disco.

this whole debate started out when Synth junkie heard Rose- "I Wanna Be Your Love" in the melodies of Gaga's- "Papparazzi"; which in fact;
proves that American made Dance Pop is "inspired" by Italo Disco. Sorry if it offends some of you, when but deal with it. It's a fact.

Good point that you didn't just say Eurobeat. But Italo Disco is preceded by Disco (itself not entirely an electronic genre), itself preceded by Motown... a wholly American endeavor, by coincidence.

And, as someone who has studied American Contemporary Music since the institution of slavery, I can affirm that dance music owes more to Soul and R&B (and, later, general Disco) than Italo Disco alone. Additionally, Italy wasn't the only nation producing Disco (Italo Disco itself is more descendant of Eurodisco and PWL/SAW productions, which were not inherently Italian so much as European in general). Modern Pop owes as much to Italo Disco as it does to Funk, Soul, R&B, and even older Rock 'N Roll; yes, it's a contributor, but it would be a stretch to suggest that Italo was the main contributor.

One Italo Disco song influencing One Dance Pop artist does NOT mean that ALL "American made Dance Pop is 'inspired' by Italo Disco". It wouldn't offend me— hell, I'd actually be very excited to see Pop Music embrace an Italo Disco approach, it'd be an improvement!— but I'd need a LOT more convincing than one song by one artist using Italo Disco or Eurobeat SPECIFICALLY and EXCLUSIVELY, before I start believing that American Dance Pop has entirely moved their party on top of Italo Disco's grave (as opposed to, say, dancing on the graves of OTHER genres as well).

...in short, believe it or not, I do believe that some of the pop my country puts out is garbage. I'm not even saying it's all happy glorious wonderful sunshine, I rather despise Ke$ha's music in particular. I do, however, believe that even music I dislike or find overly "simple" or "dull" or just plain "bad" usually requires SOME effort, SOME hard work. My point, my BIG point... is that Eurobeat or Italo Disco is really not THAT wildly different from other genres in most regards, and that Eurobeat is NOT innocent of the same sins. Dance Pop has thieves, Eurobeat has thieves (otherwise we wouldn't have that aforementioned "ripoffs" thread). Dance Pop has generic entries, Eurobeat has generic entries (Oh boy oh boy! Is this that one Eurobeat song that goes "Intro Riff V1 Pc Ch Riff V2 Pc Ch Riff Etc...?"). Dance Pop has bad songs, Eurobeat has bad songs (how many people actually LIKED "I'm Superstar"??? And I say that as someone who actually doesn't mind Futura!).

We LIKE Eurobeat more because it's more appealing to us, but in terms of the problems that plague other forms, it is NOT defensibly "better".

[otter87]

These artists are the ones that use the most formulatic form of music imaginable

and Eurobeat isn't? lol, Eurobeat may be even more guilty of this.