Wikipedia 'Eurobeat' entry

[UQ100]

I might have been a little harsh when I said "don't even seem to have anything that resembles a chorus", but I still believe a few of the early refrains are...extremely well hidden, to put it in a more soft term
I won't go into detail on this yet - reason on this will follow much later

Hmm... OK. Maybe you mean the sections move from one to the next less obviously?

we could use the term "meassure" instead of bar? :p
but that'd probably confuse other people...or something. My basic concern here is probably just that I dislike the term "bar" (just like I prefer to say "refrain" instead of "chorus").

LOL... well, music is a confusing subject. I think it's better to use the "formal" terms on Wikipedia though.

[Humbedooh]

I added a section for "the Eurobeat formula" on the Eurobeat Wiki entry.I figured this really needed doing because it's such a large part of eurobeat, and it makes eurobeat what it is today...] [...However if I did add something that seems to be an opinion, go ahead and remove it. I'm just tired and I might have missed something. XD

First a little nitpicking
there's no such word as "outro", though people usually think there is .
"intro" is a latin term (short for "introitus" in musical terms), and the opposite of such is "extro" (short for "extroitus"..figures ;p). So I'm gonna edit that at least .

Might also be an idea to mabe just remove the part about the Sabi in the "Eurobeat genre" chapter, and move it all to the formula one, so we don't use both chapters to tell the reader, that a chorus is called Sabi in Eurobeat.


And finally, to UQ100: The term "bar" is not more formal than the term "meassure". It just depends on where in the world you live Roughly put, Bar is the british english version, and Meassure is the american english version. doesn't make the term itself any easier though

[UQ100]

there's no such word as "outro", though people usually think there is .
"intro" is a latin term (short for "introitus" in musical terms), and the opposite of such is "extro" (short for "extroitus"..figures ;p). So I'm gonna edit that at least .

It does sound informal, I suppose, but it is listed in the Dictionary (Oxford American Dictionary) that comes with Mac OS X:

outro |?outr?| noun ( pl. -tros) informal the concluding section of a piece of music or a radio or television program : the intros, outros, and bridges of various segments.

So it probably does exist as a word.

And finally, to UQ100: The term "bar" is not more formal than the term "meassure". It just depends on where in the world you live Roughly put, Bar is the british english version, and Meassure is the american english version. doesn't make the term itself any easier though

Oh, I didn't mean that with "bar/measure"... I meant that since Wikipedia is supposed to be a reference your (or my) preferences only count for so much. Like it would definitely be better to use "chorus" over "refrain" since "refrain" isn't used these days (and I think has a slightly different meaning. Can't quite remember what, though!)

And yeah, I live in the UK, but I don't always go for British terminology... just whatever I like.

[Humbedooh]

It does sound informal, I suppose, but it is listed in the Dictionary (Oxford American Dictionary) that comes with Mac OS X

I'd be so bold as to say Oxford is a soddy old bum then ;p or the likes. I suppose they'll accept "internal / outternal" as well soon? (better go check, hmm..).

They've probably included it, because many people use it today, but regardless of how many people say "outro", it's still wrong in the sense, that it makes people think it has to do with the english terms in/out, which is not the case (my own musical education was purely classical, so I've dealt with many ex/introitae, and woe to those that called it out instead of ex ;p).

Kind'a like how people always pronounce "scones" the wrong way as well - doesn't make it right just because they think it is

[the_ditz]

The Scottish pronounce scones correctly, the English don't

Anyway, regarding the whole talk about outro, language is continually evolving to keep up with cultural and social changes and youth language/technology are two of the areas that significantly influence the creation of new words. The fact that such a large dictionary as Oxford has included the word "outro" shows that it is a word that has reached such prominence that it is gradually being accepted into the English language properly. That doesn't mean that it will ever replace the correct term derived from latin, but rather it provides an easier alternative that has more relevance to the speakers that are using it.

Extro to me sounds very strange, and is very similar to extra meaning misinterpretations of its meaning could result. But whatever - personally I'd use outro as everyone knows what it means even if it isn't considered to be fully correct in linguistic terms...

[Humbedooh]

The Scottish pronounce scones correctly, the English don't

Exactly! I always get a lil' steaming when people say "scoooeooeoeownes"

Extro to me sounds very strange, and is very similar to extra meaning misinterpretations of its meaning could result. But whatever - personally I'd use outro as everyone knows what it means even if it isn't considered to be fully correct in linguistic terms...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outro
Notice the headline there If wikipedia refers to the term as Extro, we should probably refer to it as such in other entries. One could of course link the word to that entry, so people can find out what it means.

also, for Shinraikan; terms such as intro, bridge, verse, sabi etc shouldn't be capitalized (Intro, Verse, Sabi etc) in the wikipedia entry - the manual of style clearly states so : )
Apart from that, nice work on the formula chapter so far - although, as someone mentioned earlier, the term "formula" might sound a bit degrading. Maybe...the characteristics of Eurobeat..or something along those lines?

[the_ditz]

Eurobeat structure?

And yeah, the whole scoh-nes pronunciation really bugs me too, but maybe it's cos I'm Scottish and there's the whole Scotland vs. England rivalry

For anyone curious, the correct pronunciation for scones should be...

sc-aw-ns

...but that's a completely different topic

[Humbedooh]

People should watch ducktales more often! and pay attention when Uncle Scrooge says he won't do this or that for "all the scones in Scotland!".
But yes, different topic

[Cosmic_Bard]

I read that stuff about the formula... I think that maybe that stuff about the labels' specific styles should maybe be kept separate? Or changed to made applicable to the formula section? Also, I think they generalize too much. Every label (with perhaps the exception of HRG) usually have a broad range of styles.

For instance:
"The interesting thing about SCP is that their music closely resembles Trance but still doesn't stray away from that authentic Eurobeat sound."

Might sound better like:
"Some of SCP's tracks are produced with trance influences, but still manage to adopt a typical eurobeat sound."

The former insinuates that all of SCP's music is trance-like, which I think we'd agree isn't true.

I think it's a great start, though. The formula section is important, I think.

[Shawaazu]

I wanna know how someone got the name Salvatore Brandoni for Digital Planet. Whoever did it also put the alias "Spock" for Salvatore.

Salvatore is strange. It should be Stefano Brandoni.

Ok, I changed it to Stefano.

[UQ100]

I'd be so bold as to say Oxford is a soddy old bum then ;p or the likes. I suppose they'll accept "internal / outternal" as well soon? (better go check, hmm..).

LOL.

They've probably included it, because many people use it today, but regardless of how many people say "outro", it's still wrong in the sense, that it makes people think it has to do with the english terms in/out, which is not the case (my own musical education was purely classical, so I've dealt with many ex/introitae, and woe to those that called it out instead of ex ;p).

Debates over whether words that aren't "correct" in an etymological sense are "really" words have and will continue to occur; besides, English is already one big mess.

From my POV, though, what's important is the meaning of the word is clear, and that it doesn't confuse or obfuscate reality. In this case, I don't know that "outro" could be taken to mean anything else or confuse anything else!

On the other hand, a word like "remix" is misleading, because typically a "remix" is a complete rearrangement of the track, and sometimes has almost nothing to do with the original. Everyone knows this, of course, but it confuses the word "mixing" which strictly means the job of the guy sitting at the mixing console. Unfortunately we're stuck with it since from a marketing point of view it would be foolish to use any other word.

Anyway, what to use here... well, I can say I've never heard the word "extro". OK, let's check the textbooks... how about "ending"?

[Shinraikan]

Like I said, go ahead and change the wording around a bit. I was just trying to get the general idea through because I think it's a very important part of what eurobeat is.

Maybe where the labels are involved we can create a sort of "table" structure that the artist names follow to correspond to the specific styles of breakdown, synthesizers used (could be saved for the Wiki entries for the labels), etc.? It might give it some more formality that way.

The terms used are just one of many different terms used in music production; I just wrote what I use when I'm talking to people about music. I think the term "bridge" applies here because it's a way of making the verse and the chorus connect, just like a bridge.

[UQ100]

The terms used are just one of many different terms used in music production; I just wrote what I use when I'm talking to people about music. I think the term "bridge" applies here because it's a way of making the verse and the chorus connect, just like a bridge.

Bridge isn't incorrect, it's just that "pre-chorus" is a better term since it describes its function. (Leads to the chorus.) Whereas it can mean other sections, if you're familar with Stock Aitken Waterman tracks, it's the (typically instrumental in their case) bit in the middle of the song after the second chorus. (Sometimes called the "middle eight" in British English.)

I may well edit it myself, but it seems good to explain or get agreement first. Avoid revert wars.

[Shinraikan]

"Pre-chorus" is a boring name. Most dictionaries state this:

bridge (n.)
Music.
1. A thin, upright piece of wood in some stringed instruments that supports the strings above the soundboard.
2. A transitional passage connecting two subjects or movements.

Whereas the two "subjects" are the verse and the chorus.

I don't really think it matters though. It's just word. Put whatever you want. XD

I only defend that word because I use it on a day to day basis when talking about specific parts of tracks with my colleagues.

[UQ100]

"Pre-chorus" is a boring name. Most dictionaries state this:

bridge (n.)
Music.
1. A thin, upright piece of wood in some stringed instruments that supports the strings above the soundboard.
2. A transitional passage connecting two subjects or movements.

Whereas the two "subjects" are the verse and the chorus.

I don't really think it matters though. It's just word. Put whatever you want. XD

I only defend that word because I use it on a day to day basis when talking about specific parts of tracks with my colleagues.

If you look at a lot of modern songwriting literature, you'll find the word "pre-chorus" since it's unambigious and emphases that the pre-chorus builds tension into the chorus and "throws" the song into it. It also uses the word up for describing other sections, then you have to start saying "which" bridge. (Pre-chorus can also be called "transitional bridge".) Bridge is not "incorrect", I'm not saying that you're wrong as such, but I can't argue your preferences, so we just agree to disagree I think.

Anyway, this is getting more than a little bogged down in detail. There are other parts of the article to discuss that need fixing up or expanding and important aspects of Eurobeat to document.