Super Eurobeat Vol. 168

[Vadim]

With the right arrangement you get an energetic result, with a bad one it falls flat, but simply having high bpm and hoping for energy gets you nowhere.

Actually,Mike Stock,I believe,used to be opposed to exceeding 130 bpm in
dance music.

You mean stuff like Pamsy?

More or less. I wonder why not just make melodies more trancy,
and leave the eurobeat sound unchanged in the process.

If you copy those styles exactly, or don't integrate any "borrowed" parts, then you lose or dilute your own values and fail to differentiate from other styles.

U got it!

They do...?

It might appear so from an evidence of much reported push for quality on utterly subjective basis that eurobeat teams in Italy are enduring from their japanese executive patrons.
Tons of well produced tracks are rejected and never see the light of day.

[UQ100]

With the right arrangement you get an energetic result, with a bad one it falls flat, but simply having high bpm and hoping for energy gets you nowhere.

Actually,Mike Stock,I believe,used to be opposed to exceeding 130 bpm in dance music.

Yep, he said he only ever went over it because it would sound too slow if everything else is pushing 140bpm and his is still down in the mid-120s it would sound too slow. He is/was very critical of the dance music in the 90's as well:

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/1994_ar ... lines.html

When japanese labels want typical eurobeat to sound like million backs big american label production suites,it gets nothing short of rediculous.

They do...?

It might appear so from an evidence of much reported push for quality on utterly subjective basis that eurobeat teams in Italy are enduring from their japanese executive patrons.
Tons of well produced tracks are rejected and never see the light of day.

Hmm, well that's very odd. I don't see any quality issues with the best Eurobeat tracks at all. I guess Mr. Newfield hinted when he said "no Avex knocking on the door" that they are a constraint, although I assumed he meant in terms of style.

[UQ100]

E-Rotic, eh? Sounds like a class act.

You should see some of their music videos. (some are on youtube. NSFW is very strongly implied.)

Just had a look at a couple of them. YIKES!!!

[Mikaeru]

They do...?

It might appear so from an evidence of much reported push for quality on utterly subjective basis that eurobeat teams in Italy are enduring from their japanese executive patrons.
Tons of well produced tracks are rejected and never see the light of day.

Hmm, well that's very odd. I don't see any quality issues with the best Eurobeat tracks at all. I guess Mr. Newfield hinted when he said "no Avex knocking on the door" that they are a constraint, although I assumed he meant in terms of style.

Evelina's mentioned this to me before. Avex can be pretty random about what tracks they end up picking, and at least in the past weren't exactly the greatest at giving feedback.

I mean, look at HRG's catalogue. Super Kaiser is coming out now, but it was done BEFORE stuff like Do You Wanna Be My Secret Love way back in 144, and other stuff is before that (Bugabuga Chew Chew, Rambo Demolition). I'm not the biggest HRG fan, but that's a LOT of unpublished songs.

[oresama-chan]

True, but not on any large scale. I personally think it is the best way to create volumes of good music.

If you use the word "large scale", the market for Eurobeat itself is
so small nowadays that we couldn't consider it as a peculiar quality to
whole Japan.

so, no lip-synching in Eurobeat today?

As far as I know, no. They often lip-sync to their own record, though.

but it seems today the idealization in the "West" is of a band or "singer-songwriter" that writes and plays their own material.

Same here and I have the impression that those ppl are called
an artist and those who just sing are called a singer. Singers aren't
deglorified, though.

[drnrg]

UQ100 wrote:

Really? In 1986?! Who was responsible for that?

Not axactly sure who was responsible for the remix of that Elton John song? The original is straight out Pop, but back in 1986-88 everybody wanted that Hi NRG Dance sound. Even Cheap Trick remixed "Don't Be Cruel" Other artists included.. George Michael, Tiffany and Kim Wilde. It shows how easy Pop music sells out. That is why now a days all radio Top 40 music sucks. Except hard rock land Alternative like The Killers and Staind.

As for Eurobeat lip Syncing. I'm sure it is not a big practice. I can see it now 1995. Chester, Tommy K, Lou Grant, Thomas T. and Dave hammond all live on stage. Imagine the surprise when Gino Caria comes out and sings all these artist. Of Course it never happened ..and you can see why?
I think the way it was done at the last Iventi Party was smart and entertaining at the same time. I was not there, but I recall seeing that Clara ,Dave, Mauro and Ace(SCP) performed. but where was TIME?

[UQ100]

Not axactly sure who was responsible for the remix of that Elton John song? The original is straight out Pop, but back in 1986-88 everybody wanted that Hi NRG Dance sound. Even Cheap Trick remixed "Don't Be Cruel" Other artists included.. George Michael, Tiffany and Kim Wilde.

Kim Wilde had a couple of SAW-ish tracks, "You Keep Me Hangin' On" and "You Came," the chords on the latter sound much like a SAW track. But then she always was synth-pop.

It shows how easy Pop music sells out. That is why now a days all radio Top 40 music sucks.

Well, I think reasons for the mess of pop music today are pretty complicated. Music industry is a business, but it didn't stop good pop music for decades, The Beatles, Motown, Disco, into the 80's...

I was surprised to see recently Nelly Furtado and Shakira have done an Rn'B style album though. I dunno, usually in pop it's easy enough to just take the current style of music and write a song anyway, but Rn'B/rap is all about groove, not song. I don't even know anyone that likes it!

And of course I agree Top 40 music today almost all sucks.

As for Eurobeat lip Syncing. I'm sure it is not a big practice. I can see it now 1995. Chester, Tommy K, Lou Grant, Thomas T. and Dave hammond all live on stage. Imagine the surprise when Gino Caria comes out and sings all these artist. Of Course it never happened ..and you can see why?
I think the way it was done at the last Iventi Party was smart and entertaining at the same time. I was not there, but I recall seeing that Clara ,Dave, Mauro and Ace(SCP) performed. but where was TIME?

Watching old lip-sync "performances" on YouTube today is hilarious, especially when the audience cheers/claps. But on the other hand promoting stupid idea of "artists" is a shooting pop music in the foot, the artist is of course typically the record producer and many of the best records were made that way with the singer only as the "guest vocalist". The more this is seen as a "fake" way to create music or that it would result in bad music the fewer chance there is of good music.

Of course both Clara and Dave are "artists" in this full sense of the word.

[drnrg]

UQ100 wrote:

I was surprised to see recently Nelly Furtado and Shakira have done an Rn'B style album though. I dunno, usually in pop it's easy enough to just take the current style of music and write a song anyway, but Rn'B/rap is all about groove, not song. I don't even know anyone that likes it!

Exactly my point. Not one of thos eartists has stuck with a sound. J-Lo, Mariah Carry ,Christina Aguilera(Though very hot) are all sell out. Doing R&B duets, Rap Duets. I think that the music industry mainly wants to sell SEX not music. Sometimes you get some nice retro pop like All American Rejects or Fountains Of Wayne, but it's mainly thepeople fabricating top 40 artists(K. Clarkson, Clay Aiken etc...) tommorow they will all be Las Vegas lounge Acts

Their is one strong point I stand behind. The reality is Eurobeat is practically invisable in the real world, but If it suddenly became more popular than SEX, It would soon fizzle out when at it's peak. Examples: Hi-NRG, Freestlye,Gangster Rap,New Wave,Disco,Heavy Metal,Grunge,and soon Regeaton and Power pop(Blink 182,Bowling For Soup). I do enjoy some of these other genres, but nothing compares to our Eurobeat. I think it has to run in your blood to love it.

[Vadim]

I think that the music industry mainly wants to sell SEX not music. Sometimes you get some nice retro pop like All American Rejects or Fountains Of Wayne, but it's mainly thepeople fabricating top 40 artists(K. Clarkson, Clay Aiken etc...) tommorow they will all be Las Vegas lounge Acts

Indi Labels today do not take chances anymore on new artists,they just
license more or less developed acts from other independent labels,but only those that already charted. As we all know, majors just manurefacture their artists according to where the dow-johns flows.
So,unless you are already a successfull act,no way to releases in Europe or USA for yah.Such situation breeds commercialism,because acts are terrified of going off the safe top-40 road.Few, or less, good acts may still come through, but vast majority of the market will be flooded with the ass-ejected--by-products.

Their is one strong point I stand behind. The reality is Eurobeat is practically invisable in the real world,

Eurobeat is created only by secured production jobs with Avex and the
surroundings,where a few eurobeat-producers-for-life give out the neverending stream of products that are similarly styled and uniform.
Why would this music exist outside of those few warm places in Japan?
Does anyone care to promote it elsewhere?

Examples: Hi-NRG,

Eurobeat is hi nrg. Hi nrg is that stuff that all the 80-s stuff came out of.

Freestlye,Gangster Rap,New Wave,Disco,Heavy Metal,Grunge,and soon Regeaton and Power pop(Blink 182,Bowling For Soup). I do enjoy some of these other genres, but nothing compares to our Eurobeat. I think it has to run in your blood to love it.

Eurobeat is simply the only thing that remained to be made,but the
formula that's used to make it isn't exclusive in the Universe.
U almost have to call anything *that sounds this way* eurobeat nowdays,cause words like hi nrg, pwl,eurodisco, or disco fox just don't ring a bell with ppl's no-more.[/quote]

[UQ100]

Exactly my point. Not one of thos eartists has stuck with a sound. J-Lo, Mariah Carry ,Christina Aguilera(Though very hot) are all sell out. Doing R&B duets, Rap Duets. I think that the music industry mainly wants to sell SEX not music.

The music industry is surely run by a lot of people who are bothered about what is "cool," they don't consider pop music as cool, they consider it a lot of junk so they try to promote this rubbish. (I don't really qualify today's Rn'B as "pop", but they probably do.) Since it is junk to them, they think they can sell pop music through marketing, not good music.

Mariah Carey's stuff that she did with Walter Alfanseiff in the early 90's was surely well written (e.g. the album "Emotions"), her stuff today is rubbish, probably the same with Christina Aguilera, whether you like that stuff or not.

And frankly, I'd rather see Christina in her early videos than that awful porn-without-taking-clothes-off display in "Dirrty".

Sometimes you get some nice retro pop like All American Rejects or Fountains Of Wayne, but it's mainly thepeople fabricating top 40 artists(K. Clarkson, Clay Aiken etc...) tommorow they will all be Las Vegas lounge Acts

Kelly Clarkson's stuff is an exception today, many well-written tracks on "Breakaway", it's far from my favourite style, but they hired the best production talents for it, Max Martin for instance, not that boom boom Rn'B producer rubbish, (exaggerating a little) one drum loop and an ad lib on top.

I consider the "Idol" shows a disaster but it shows what a mess the music industry is in if the only mainstream place for pop music is on a TV show. But viewing figures suggest that music has a wide audience. And interestingly here in London, the #1 radio station is now Heart FM, I think it plays lots of 70's, 80's and 90's pop, not so much Rn'B.

Their is one strong point I stand behind. The reality is Eurobeat is practically invisable in the real world, but If it suddenly became more popular than SEX, It would soon fizzle out when at it's peak.

Music styles surely go up to a peak and then climbs down, what's odd with Eurobeat styles is how they are almost "banned" in the West. There are other styles that are badly regarded too, you won't find anything that sounds like 80's melodic rock today ("Eye of the Tiger") with the exception of a few independent releases (including by Jim Peterik who wrote that, but his stuff ain't on the radio today.)

Basically, most good music is today regarded as "cheesy".

I do enjoy some of these other genres, but nothing compares to our Eurobeat. I think it has to run in your blood to love it.

Today's super-high-bpm Eurobeat probably would have a hard time with a wide audience, but in the 80's this type of style was very popular as you know. In the UK at least it was only once the smear campaign destroyed Stock Aitken Waterman (and to be fair, they shouldn't have touched the likes of "Big Fun") and the rise of the nonsense "DJ culture" that it became a pariah.

[UQ100]

Indi Labels today do not take chances anymore on new artists,they just
license more or less developed acts from other independent labels,but only those that already charted. As we all know, majors just manurefacture their artists according to where the dow-johns flows.
So,unless you are already a successfull act,no way to releases in Europe or USA for yah.Such situation breeds commercialism,because acts are terrified of going off the safe top-40 road.Few, or less, good acts may still come through, but vast majority of the market will be flooded with the ass-ejected--by-products.

I don't think there are so many truely indie labels today, most are just sublabels of the majors. (Incidentally, why did the term "indie" get associated with a type of music? Lots of pop music was on independent labels, Motown, PWL, Jive...)

Aside from my last post (music industry populated by people who are too bothered about what's "cool" and don't care for pop or any type of "commercial" music)... the record industry is contracting. Probably the biggest sign of the mess is that Warner Music Group is not part of (AOL) Time-Warner, they spun it off. What does that say when a media conglomerate doesn't even care to keep their music division?

In times of contraction, no-one wants to take a risk, less money for risks, and so on. Of course the Internet has a lot to do with these changes, who can predict where things will be in 10 years? Ideal model to my mind is lots of producers (like those in Eurobeat) specializing subgenres so that each person is able to have a good quantity of music in the styles they like. Mega-act, mega-budget music videos, and some band spending a year of studio time to record only 10 tracks, most of which suck, then becomes very foolish, goal instead is fill up iPods with material the listener wants.

(Doesn't mean iTunes Music Store, which is another disasterous outpost of the current music industry.)

Eurobeat is created only by secured production jobs with Avex and the surroundings,where a few eurobeat-producers-for-life give out the neverending stream of products that are similarly styled and uniform.

Question is, how long will this situation last, and how are they paid? I'm assuming Avex pays a flat license fee for the songs, then of course they get any relevant songwriting royalties on top. With current sales figures though, is there enough money coming in to cover costs?

U almost have to call anything *that sounds this way* eurobeat nowdays,cause words like hi nrg, pwl,eurodisco, or disco fox just don't ring a bell with ppl's no-more.

Of course I agree.

[Vadim]

I don't think there are so many truely indie labels today, most are just sublabels of the majors.

surprisingly(or not..) it's these real independents that usually have
any sort of creatively or musically interesting stuff.

(Incidentally, why did the term "indie" get associated with a type of music?

It just means *independent* and implies not being on a pay roll of conglomerates or majors.

What does that say when a media conglomerate doesn't even care to keep their music division?

Sometimes businesses just produce new businesses, which is caused by different share holders dividing a company. Than instead of one CEO we got 2 men in 2 different chairs.

In times of contraction, no-one wants to take a risk, less money for risks, and so on. Of course the Internet has a lot to do with these changes, who can predict where things will be in 10 years?

Labels today refuse most of new independent music which just kills dance music everywhere.

Ideal model to my mind is lots of producers (like those in Eurobeat)

If u count the number of producers on any given SEB,u may just have about a handfull,and this with considering the number of labels being 'bout close to that number. Current SEB producers are fantastic and deserve to keep their operations going,but it isn't healthy for the genre to isolate it
in such a way, and to never expand it beyond those fortunate handfull.

Question is, how long will this situation last, and how are they paid?

As long as enough ppl in Japan buy the records. If sales drop to such an extent that profits don't justify the investment by target japanese labels, than it's the curtain for eurobeat. Apparently italian teams are paid by their patrons the japanese labels.

I'm assuming Avex pays a flat license fee for the songs, then of course they get any relevant songwriting royalties on top.

Asian music industry,just like Western European one,is based on royalty
system. Every record sold pays royalties to those that created the record,apparently. If millions of records sell(which they did in Japan over 15 years) and pay royalties,those that made ém records can hang out with Donald Trump.

With current sales figures though, is there enough money coming in to cover costs?

Lemme let u in on a little secret... it costs nothing to produce dance music.
Producer has to give up a couple of nights of playing golf,watching sports,
taking his girlfriend out to watch a flick,so he can punch a bunch of notes into a sequencer,and then record and ballance the recorded by mixing.
Certainly,to deserve the privilege of being well paid for that note punching one has to be extremely advanced in skill and experience.
The only expense is paying the session singers,but without royalties
applying to fees...,they must really love singing to do that stuff.

[drnrg]

Vadim wrote

Eurobeat is hi nrg. Hi nrg is that stuff that all the 80-s stuff came out of

You are absolutely right!, but I was referring to the 80's when almost every dance music was concidered Hi-NRG
Examples taken from Hi-NRG Charts: pet Shop Boys,Mike Mareen,Erasure,Flirts,Fun Fun and even speeded up Freestyle(Expose) and Italo (Dharma-Plastic Doll) were concidered Hi-NRG. Ironically KPWR .KIIS F.M, and KROQ all played these artist at one time or another before they became "UNCOOL"
Even artist like Gwen Stephanie, who had a fairly decent group with No Doubt has sold out horribly....and as I allready mentioned most of todays pop is full of Sampled over hits from yesterday mush. And a song must nowadays contain words like Bling, Ho, Humps etc...

It is really sad, but if any of you ever look at top 40 charts, You will see the same names week after week.

UQ100 wrote

you won't find anything that sounds like 80's melodic rock today ("Eye of the Tiger")

Actually Survivor, Warrant, Poison, Duran Duran and even the Cars have regrouped and named themselves the New Cars. All these bands have been relesing music. Some still chart and are concidered cool, like Duran Duran, Def Leppard and Bon Jovi, but sadly for others can't even break the top 100.


Someone mentioned Donald Trump. I guess if he was behind Eurobeat ,it would shoot through the roof. It would be featured in Commercials ,Sitcoms, Reality shows. And it would mean Money Heaven for the producers, but at the same time....it would also be the end of Eurobeat as we know it!

[Jayveemon]

Even artist like Gwen Stephanie, who had a fairly decent group with No Doubt has sold out horribly

Quoted for truth.

[Sadie]

Even artist like Gwen Stephanie, who had a fairly decent group with No Doubt has sold out horribly

Quoted for truth.

I concur, completely.